In article <bhjdpv$6gk$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Benji Smith says...
>
>In article <bhjbbb$420$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Frank D. Wills says...
>>Considering all that Walter has put into this
>>effort, I do not think that it is a fitting
>>response to turn this group into a bunch of
>>bickering children.
>
>I'm a little incredulous that we could get so worked up over an issue so mundane as gotos. If everyone is going to get into a big huff and bickering, it should be about templates or runtime object reflection or stack unwinding or soemthing else important.
>
>--Benji Smith

Oh, it's one of the topics best to avoid.  Religion, politics, and gotos. <g>

lol!
"Patrick Down" <Patrick_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message
news:bhjenm$7hh$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> In article <bhjdpv$6gk$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Benji Smith says...
> >
> >In article <bhjbbb$420$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Frank D. Wills says...
> >>Considering all that Walter has put into this
> >>effort, I do not think that it is a fitting
> >>response to turn this group into a bunch of
> >>bickering children.
> >
> >I'm a little incredulous that we could get so worked up over an issue so
mundane
> >as gotos. If everyone is going to get into a big huff and bickering, it
should
> >be about templates or runtime object reflection or stack unwinding or
soemthing
> >else important.
> >
> >--Benji Smith
>
> Oh, it's one of the topics best to avoid.  Religion, politics, and gotos.
<g>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I'm personally surprised for this comment. I've been around this newsgroup for over a year now and I had never seen such a reply. Actually, I remember someone some time ago saying something about this, that this was a really polite newsgroup. And I can also remember Walter saying something in a c++ forum about digitalmars newsgroups being visited by individuals who usually good-behave.

I'm not trying to blame you, Frank, I'm just expressing myself. And now that I'm there (and since lately we all tend to go a bit OT), we must remember that we all are persons with emotions and everything else that comes with our human condition (sorry, didn't find another way to express that) and there're moments when we only want to let our feelings go. I, myself, a couple of months ago wrote this really weird post worrying about my professional future (and a couple of persons here gave me good advice) but only because I was a bit depressed. I'm just trying to find an explanation for what Ilya said, because, for what I've read from him, he's not usually like that. Or I might be wrong, who knows.

Like Benji said, getting so bitter about goto isn't a good thing to do. Like Mike said, if there's to be an argument, go to (no pun intended) the point. And finally, programming isn't *that* important to get so expressive. Tomorrow starts world war 3 and in a week everything is destroyed. The last we'll be thinking is programming, so save your anger for better moments.

(all that, IMHO)

-------------------------
Carlos Santander

"Frank D. Wills" <fdwills@sandarh.com> wrote in message
news:bhjbbb$420$1@digitaldaemon.com...
| Ilya,
|
| You really like to jump in there when there
| is conflict, don't you? You enjoy fanning
| the flames because you like to see conflict,
| fighting, and discord. I've known people like
| you. You like to see things and people torn
| by discord and destruction. This is just what
| I hope does not happen to this newsgroup and
| project.
|
| Considering all that Walter has put into this
| effort, I do not think that it is a fitting
| response to turn this group into a bunch of
| bickering children.
|
| I think calling me names, and degenerating
| into personal attacks on me, just because I
| express an opinion about an aspect common to
| many languages is just the kind of thing that
| will destroy the good spirit that has been
| enjoyed in this newsgroup.
|
| And again, I think it is a very poor thank-you
| to Walter to cause the degeneration of this
| newsgroup. As Walter said, it is the enthusiasm
| of everyone for the work he is doing that
| keeps him going. Maybe Walter didn't know
| his supporters were just childern, prone to
| bickering, fighting, and a lack of disipline.
|
| I don't think we deserve what Walter is doing,
| but he is doing it, and sharing it with us,
| and I think we should do our best to not
| destroy the good spirit that is behind what
| Walter is doing.
|


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Mike Wynn wrote:

> to quote the late Gary Howland : "you known Coca cola (TM) used to have
> cocaine in it!"
> and caffine is diuretic so can make you more dehydrated


Caffiene is indeed a diuretic, which would not seem good for an endurance athlete, except that athletes are very efficient creatures cardiovascularly, so they seem to make up for it.  Long term effects are probably not good for them, though.

> and I was under the impression that high dose of sugar (simple or complex)
> when you blood sugars are low from excersise was the worse thing to do (can
> cause hypoglycemia and eventually lead to type 2 diabeties) more compex
> carbs or proteins where better to relenish the bodys energy store (and water
> as the liver need water to store sugars)
> 

I don't know what you mean by the high sugars causing hypoglycemia.  In a fit person doing intense, long duration exercise, sugar of almost all kinds is burned up like crazy as the muscles desperately scrounge for any fuel they can get. This burning does not cause hypoglycemia. These people are too healthy for something like that too happen.  These people NEED the sugars after a hard workout.  I'll just clarify that I'm talking about a athlete that trains hard everyday.  Most people that just do periodic fitness, definitely don't need to go on a sugar binge after a workout. Few people work out hard enough to need those sugars. But those people that work out are still less likely to get diabetes then those that don't.

The biggest cause of type II diabetes is found in inactive humans that eat lots of sugars of all types and refined foods (ie Western diet). They don't burn it or burn very little, so it either goes to fat, or over time the sugars overload the pancreas (which produces the insulin necessary to metabolize carbohydrates).  Eventually sugars build up in the blood stream to dangerously high levels -- hyperglycemia.  The viscous nature of blood with high glucose levels causes a veritable slowing of the blood.  It becomes syrupy, and the first place to notice this happening is the brain which starts starving for sugar and oxygen (yes the brain actually can't get the sugar it needs!). Typcal symptoms of a hyperglycemic person is quite naturally drowsiness and lethargy during the day.  The hyperglycemic state is usually the first big sign of type II diabetes.  The term "HYPOglycemia" has actually nothing to do with the onset of diabetes.  It's a state of low blood sugar that typically occurs when a diabetic takes his/her insulin shot (or a oral hypoglycemic) without eating some food to compensate for the effect.  So the medication knocks the blood sugars to dangerously low levels.  This is a side affect of medicated diabetics.  It is not related to the disease itself.  This is a common confusion.

Oh by the way... the cure for diabetes type II is quite simple: prevention.  Don't eat the western diet. Don't eat lots of sugars, especially the refined stuff, unless you are a crazy athlete.  Exercise lots anyway. Don't eat white flower based foods.  Don't drink alcohol or, at least, keep it to a minimum. Eat fruit, vegetables, whole grains, some meats, and exercise at least an hour a day. Oh and never, never, never, smoke.  Diabetes is one of the ugliest diseases I've seen.  It leads to so many other horrible diseases including atherosclerosis, heart attacks, cerebrovascular accidents, renal failure, gangarene, and cancers. Oh and one other thing: DON'T DRINK COKE! ;)  Seriously, people that live on those beverages are pickling themselves everyday with sugars that their bodies can not use and do not need.  They are a diabetic waiting to happen.

Of course most of this can be studied on-line somewhere.  I'd say there is still a lot of misinformation out there and even the medical community doesn't always explain the source of the problem very well...it's even contorted sometimes.  I really don't trust all the diabetes PR literature out there.  A lot of my job as a paramedic deals with diabetics...and long time smokers.

Oh well now...I've really gone on to a non-programming tangent.... It's all your fault Mike! :)

So beware...beware...the western diet...and the "goto"!

Later,

John

"John Reimer" <jjreimer@telus.net> wrote in message news:bhjd2s$5ob$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>
> Matthew Wilson wrote:
>
> >
> > Your analogy is not well founded. There are no circumstances under which
a
> > Big Mac is appropriate. Even if you do eat meat (though I cannot imagine anyone wishing to do so), then there are better forms of meat. Even if
you
> > do need a hamburgler, then there are less mass-produced, healthier, and (from what my carnivorous friends tell me) tastier alternatives.
>
> Oh I can't resist...
>
> Hamburger is definitely bad bad bad.  But there are some meats (like
> fish) that are very good for you.  This was a programming discussion,
> wasn't it? :)

Don't eat dead-walking (or flying) things, but *do* eat dead swimming
things. Very yummy

> > What we're talking about here is something that is almost always bad,
but
> > sometimes very good. A better analogy in this case would be a can of
Coke.
> > Bad in almost all conceivable circumstances, but if you've got a cycling-<substitute your sport of choice here, so long as it's not golf!>-headache, then the combination of water, high concentration of
simple
> > carbohydrates and big shot of caffeine are exactly appropriate.
Rehydrates,
> > gives your brain some well needed carbs, and opens up the blood vessels
in
> > the old grey matter to assuage the ache until the rehydration kicks in. Marvellous!
>
> Well that's kind of accurate, but I'd say that my brain will not be the thing so starving for carbs.  It gets just as much as it needs.  As a runner, my legs will be grabbing all the sugars they can get first.  In fact, I'd say my brain goes into a minimal carb burn state on long runs -- zombie style. Caffeine does help for endurance, I here.

Much truth you say. However, the brain can only metabolyse (for energy at
least) carbohydrates, so when exercising hard it is very important for the
brain (never mind the muscles) to get carbs.

> Although, if you ever run, you'll NEVER want to have a carbonated drink.
>   The...um... "air bubbles" really get in the way of breathing -- really.
> Drink juice instead.
>
> Otherwise the coke analogy sounded more like a euphemism for a bad habit ;).

Ex bad-habit. Haven't had a coke for over 3 years. However, I am still addicted to chocolate (only the true stuff, not that English/American/Australian filthy lie of milk emulsion, but the true Swiss/Belgian/French wonderment. :).

>  I still have trouble believing the volatile concoction called "Coca
> Cola" can be good for you in any situation. For the athlete, the only
> thing going for it is the fact that it contains sugar and water.  There
> are plenty of things that have sugar and water and in a better form too.
>   Now how does that compare with the "goto"? :)

The v...ile concoction that is Coca Cola is bad in almost all situations. But as I said, in that one circumstance, after a 4 hour ride, when one is very dehydrated, very low on carbs, and oftentimes headachy, it can provide immediate relief of the headache while you get lots of properly sustaining and replenishing chemicals down your neck.

>
> >
> > Derek the Dietician
> >
> >
>
> Matthew Wilson, the man of many names, I've noticed :).

I used to be a spy, for the FBI (Fat Bastards Incorporated)

"John Reimer" <jjreimer@telus.net> wrote in message news:bhjicd$b50$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> Mike Wynn wrote:
>
> > to quote the late Gary Howland : "you known Coca cola (TM) used to have
> > cocaine in it!"
> > and caffine is diuretic so can make you more dehydrated
>
>
> Caffiene is indeed a diuretic, which would not seem good for an endurance athlete, except that athletes are very efficient creatures cardiovascularly, so they seem to make up for it.  Long term effects are probably not good for them, though.
>
> > and I was under the impression that high dose of sugar (simple or
complex)
> > when you blood sugars are low from excersise was the worse thing to do
(can
> > cause hypoglycemia and eventually lead to type 2 diabeties) more compex carbs or proteins where better to relenish the bodys energy store (and
water
> > as the liver need water to store sugars)
> >
>
> I don't know what you mean by the high sugars causing hypoglycemia.  In a fit person doing intense, long duration exercise, sugar of almost all kinds is burned up like crazy as the muscles desperately scrounge for any fuel they can get. This burning does not cause hypoglycemia. These people are too healthy for something like that too happen.  These people NEED the sugars after a hard workout.  I'll just clarify that I'm talking about a athlete that trains hard everyday.  Most people that just do periodic fitness, definitely don't need to go on a sugar binge after a workout. Few people work out hard enough to need those sugars. But those people that work out are still less likely to get diabetes then those that don't.
>
> The biggest cause of type II diabetes is found in inactive humans that eat lots of sugars of all types and refined foods (ie Western diet). They don't burn it or burn very little, so it either goes to fat, or over time the sugars overload the pancreas (which produces the insulin necessary to metabolize carbohydrates).  Eventually sugars build up in the blood stream to dangerously high levels -- hyperglycemia.  The viscous nature of blood with high glucose levels causes a veritable slowing of the blood.  It becomes syrupy, and the first place to notice this happening is the brain which starts starving for sugar and oxygen (yes the brain actually can't get the sugar it needs!). Typcal symptoms of a hyperglycemic person is quite naturally drowsiness and lethargy during the day.  The hyperglycemic state is usually the first big sign of type II diabetes.  The term "HYPOglycemia" has actually nothing to do with the onset of diabetes.  It's a state of low blood sugar that typically occurs when a diabetic takes his/her insulin shot (or a oral hypoglycemic) without eating some food to compensate for the effect.  So the medication knocks the blood sugars to dangerously low levels.  This is a side affect of medicated diabetics.  It is not related to the disease itself.  This is a common confusion.
>
> Oh by the way... the cure for diabetes type II is quite simple: prevention.  Don't eat the western diet. Don't eat lots of sugars, especially the refined stuff, unless you are a crazy athlete.  Exercise lots anyway. Don't eat white flower based foods.  Don't drink alcohol or, at least, keep it to a minimum. Eat fruit, vegetables, whole grains, some meats, and exercise at least an hour a day. Oh and never, never, never, smoke.  Diabetes is one of the ugliest diseases I've seen.  It leads to so many other horrible diseases including atherosclerosis, heart attacks, cerebrovascular accidents, renal failure, gangarene, and cancers. Oh and one other thing: DON'T DRINK COKE! ;)  Seriously, people that live on those beverages are pickling themselves everyday with sugars that their bodies can not use and do not need.  They are a diabetic waiting to happen.
>
> Of course most of this can be studied on-line somewhere.  I'd say there is still a lot of misinformation out there and even the medical community doesn't always explain the source of the problem very well...it's even contorted sometimes.  I really don't trust all the diabetes PR literature out there.  A lot of my job as a paramedic deals with diabetics...and long time smokers.
well I guess I'm talking to the right person,
I was under the impresion that eating large does of sugar forced the
pancreas to produce large amounts of inculin (as you mention) the body gets
used to this and so starts to over produce inculin when any sugars are
ingested (loading the pancreas further) thus the persons blood sugar level
bounce from high (as they eat) to too low (due to the bodies over reaction)
eventually (if not dealt with by going onto a lower sugar/carb diet and
avoiding "sugar hits")
the pancreas gets tired and so diabettes can set in.

>
> Oh well now...I've really gone on to a non-programming tangent.... It's all your fault Mike! :)

I'll take the blame happily every news group/topic needs a scapegoat.

> So beware...beware...the western diet...and the "goto"!
should I mention result from a study in saudi arabia on kids with asthma
the about 50% of the kids there grown up on a western diet, the rest on a
more traditional diet
the cases of children developing asthma was vastly higher umongst those on a
western diet.

I like a balanced diet .... its a pain when your food falls off your plate!

> to quote the late Gary Howland : "you known Coca cola (TM) used to have
> cocaine in it!"

I do. Although I think that was all stopped in the 20s, when the US went all "abstinence".

Never tried the stuff, although I hear it is great the first few times.

[Digression: did you know that cocaine stimulates the part (forgot the name) of the brain that responds to food and sex - the two best physical sensations, you'd have to agree - and that repeated use dulls and eventually destroys this response. If you use it long enough, you can't taste anything, and you can't enjoy sex. And your nose rots. Hmmm ... think I'll stick to my endorphins. ;)]

> and caffeine is diuretic so can make you more dehydrated

True, but I was talking about the +ve short term effects. Once you've got rid of your headache, you need to dose up on lots of good stuff: water, balanced energy drinks (the ones without Nutrasweet, of course!!!), bananas, energy bars, etc.

> and I was under the impression that high dose of sugar (simple or complex) when you blood sugars are low from exercise was the worse thing to do (can cause hypoglycaemia and eventually lead to type 2 diabetes) more complex carbs or proteins where better to replenish the body's energy store (and
water
> as the liver need water to store sugars)

It depends how depleted you are. When you've got to the stage that you have an exercise headache, you'll likely suck up the 150-200 calories (sorry, being English I can't think in KJ) before your Eyelets react and start releasing insulin. (My step-father is a consultant dialectician, so I'll have to run this by him to check.)

> 
> Much truth you say. However, the brain can only metabolyse (for energy at
> least) carbohydrates, so when exercising hard it is very important for the
> brain (never mind the muscles) to get carbs.
> 

True, carbs are the only brain fuel. I just wish I could turn it off like a computer so it wouldn't need anything.  As an added bonus, I wouldn't feel the pain of steady plodding either.  But I guess I still need a brain to run! :)


> The v...ile concoction that is Coca Cola is bad in almost all situations.
> But as I said, in that one circumstance, after a 4 hour ride, when one is
> very dehydrated, very low on carbs, and oftentimes headachy, it can provide
> immediate relief of the headache while you get lots of properly sustaining
> and replenishing chemicals down your neck.
> 

A 4 hour ride? Oh, I'd say your body would lap up anything including Coke after that!  In fact, Coke probably never tasted so good after such a long ride.  I know the feeling (but I'd be craving it at 2.5 hours) :).  I must say, after a long hard run (2+ hours), I can't begin to describe how wonderful a sugary sweet drink tastes...of any sort.  It's a crazy experience.

Later,

John

Carlos Santander B. wrote:
> I'm personally surprised for this comment. I've been around this newsgroup
> for over a year now and I had never seen such a reply. Actually, I remember
> someone some time ago saying something about this, that this was a really
> polite newsgroup. And I can also remember Walter saying something in a c++
> forum about digitalmars newsgroups being visited by individuals who usually
> good-behave.
That's true. It's good, and unique, and needs to
be kept that way.
> 
> I'm not trying to blame you, Frank, I'm just expressing myself. And now that
> I'm there (and since lately we all tend to go a bit OT), we must remember
> that we all are persons with emotions and everything else that comes with
> our human condition (sorry, didn't find another way to express that) and
> there're moments when we only want to let our feelings go. I, myself, a
> couple of months ago wrote this really weird post worrying about my
> professional future (and a couple of persons here gave me good advice) but
> only because I was a bit depressed. I'm just trying to find an explanation
> for what Ilya said, because, for what I've read from him, he's not usually
> like that. Or I might be wrong, who knows.

Carlos,

I appreciate what you say, and it is good to be as
understanding of others as possible. I certainly wish
others well, but not all people do well or choose good.

In the past I have tried to placate trouble makers, and
befriend them. I wish I could say that it worked, but it
only seemed to encourage them. As an example, I once knew
a person who disrupted an entire computer science department
for over one year, maybe two (it's been so long I don't
remember.) I think eventually all of us were trying to
encourage something good in this person. I the meantime
he made a lot of things bad for a lot of people. Eventually
this person, as was his way, got into a heated shouting
match with the chairman of the computer science department.
The argument spilled out of the chairman's office into the
hallway, and became very physical. The trouble maker put the
chairman into the hospital, having beaten him and caused
many bone fractures. This person had no remorse for what
he did. In fact, he was giddy with glee. The chairman
left the department, worse for the wear. Eventually everyone
stopped befriending this person, because nothing seemed
to encourage him to enjoy anything but trouble. For myself,
until things became like this I had liked this person
fairly well.

There seem to be people who enjoy and encourage trouble. It's
not something I understand. In the end, I think each of us
chooses how we respond to things, and the choices we make,
and we get a glimpse of the good or the harm that will come
with that choice. Some people, for some reason, just don't
choose the thing that will make things better or good.

What Walter is doing is very important to me, and I imagine,
to some, perhaps many others. I have waited years for someone
to do this, and it could end up being far more than we might
hope at this point, but many things are possible, both good
and bad, and what this becomes will be as small or as great,
as good or as bad, as we choose to make it.

> 
> Like Benji said, getting so bitter about goto isn't a good thing to do. Like
> Mike said, if there's to be an argument, go to (no pun intended) the point.
> And finally, programming isn't *that* important to get so expressive.
> Tomorrow starts world war 3 and in a week everything is destroyed. The last
> we'll be thinking is programming, so save your anger for better moments.
> 

I am just very concerned that this newsgroup is going to decend
into the common ground of so many other groups that end up
fighting and bickering, and I'm saying that fighting and bickering,
and personal attacks are very destructive, and that once people
start flaming each other, the bad feelings grow, and it is hard to
put an end to the bad things that grow, and the good things that
are missed, and turn things back around into something good. In
this case it would be a very bad thing for that to happen.

For instance, what if all the Unix people had worked together,
rather than fragmenting. What good could have come from that?
There is no guarantee, _ever_ that things will become anything
but what we make them. There is a lot of good and opportunity
for us all here, and it will all be for the greater than
imagined good _if_ we encourage each other, and bring out
the best in each other, and make the best things happen.

I especially think of that in the context of what Walter has
given this group, and what he has dedicated himself to
continue doing. And especially in the good, careful, and
giving manner in which he is doing everything for this
group and this project.

Perhaps things that _any_ of us might do to _fail_ to be
thankful and well-mannered in response to, with all of this
good, which we are so incredibly fortunate, out of all the
world, and in all of history, does bother me a bit. How
many of us realize how lucky we are to be a part of this?
Most of the billions of the people of people in the world,
and in all of our history, could never even dream of being
a part of something like this.

And I will also add, that the creation of a language like D
is a very significant thing, something along the lines of
the creation of Unix and C. Right now, powerful corporations
control the most used and most powerful languages. With
that power comes control of our future as programmers and
software developers. In that sence there is a fight, a
struggle going on for this control. Those who control the
operating systems, languages, and software of the future
will control a fundamental, foundational aspect of out lives
and our future. Who controls the future: which people, which
corporations? It's all being determined now. How do we
treat, and treasure, this opportunity?

> (all that, IMHO)
> 
> -------------------------
> Carlos Santander
> 
> "Frank D. Wills" <fdwills@sandarh.com> wrote in message
> news:bhjbbb$420$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> | Ilya,
> |
> | You really like to jump in there when there
> | is conflict, don't you? You enjoy fanning
> | the flames because you like to see conflict,
> | fighting, and discord. I've known people like
> | you. You like to see things and people torn
> | by discord and destruction. This is just what
> | I hope does not happen to this newsgroup and
> | project.
> |
> | Considering all that Walter has put into this
> | effort, I do not think that it is a fitting
> | response to turn this group into a bunch of
> | bickering children.
> |
> | I think calling me names, and degenerating
> | into personal attacks on me, just because I
> | express an opinion about an aspect common to
> | many languages is just the kind of thing that
> | will destroy the good spirit that has been
> | enjoyed in this newsgroup.
> |
> | And again, I think it is a very poor thank-you
> | to Walter to cause the degeneration of this
> | newsgroup. As Walter said, it is the enthusiasm
> | of everyone for the work he is doing that
> | keeps him going. Maybe Walter didn't know
> | his supporters were just childern, prone to
> | bickering, fighting, and a lack of disipline.
> |
> | I don't think we deserve what Walter is doing,
> | but he is doing it, and sharing it with us,
> | and I think we should do our best to not
> | destroy the good spirit that is behind what
> | Walter is doing.
> |
> 
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release Date: 2003-08-14
> 
> 

Matthew Wilson wrote:

>>to quote the late Gary Howland : "you known Coca cola (TM) used to have
>>cocaine in it!"
> 
> 
> I do. Although I think that was all stopped in the 20s, when the US went all
> "abstinence".
> 
> Never tried the stuff, although I hear it is great the first few times.
> 
> [Digression: did you know that cocaine stimulates the part (forgot the name)
> of the brain that responds to food and sex - the two best physical
> sensations, you'd have to agree - and that repeated use dulls and eventually
> destroys this response. If you use it long enough, you can't taste anything,
> and you can't enjoy sex. And your nose rots. Hmmm ... think I'll stick to my
> endorphins. ;)]
> 
> 
>>and caffeine is diuretic so can make you more dehydrated
> 
> 
> True, but I was talking about the +ve short term effects. Once you've got
> rid of your headache, you need to dose up on lots of good stuff: water,
> balanced energy drinks (the ones without Nutrasweet, of course!!!), bananas,
> energy bars, etc.
> 
> 
>>and I was under the impression that high dose of sugar (simple or complex)
>>when you blood sugars are low from exercise was the worse thing to do (can
>>cause hypoglycaemia and eventually lead to type 2 diabetes) more complex
>>carbs or proteins where better to replenish the body's energy store (and
> 
> water
> 
>>as the liver need water to store sugars)
> 
> 
> It depends how depleted you are. When you've got to the stage that you have
> an exercise headache, you'll likely suck up the 150-200 calories (sorry,
> being English I can't think in KJ) before your Eyelets react and start
> releasing insulin. (My step-father is a consultant dialectician, so I'll
> have to run this by him to check.)
> 
"dialectician" ? -- lol

I'm no expert on these things...Just somewhat informed.

There may be unusual abnormalties that can cause hypoglycemia in atheletes...but this is not a normal response.  Most athletes will be smart enought to re-energize themselves before any deleterious effects occur.  I can see lots of bad things happening if a person pushes himself beyond the bodies capacity.  Marathoners don't have heart attacks on the course for nothing.  Perhaps some longterm pancreatic damage may also occur if the body is severely exhausted.  My point is hypoglycemia is not a typical precursor to type II diabetes, especially in athletes.

Later,

John