On Wednesday, 3 June 2020 at 12:07:58 UTC, Guillaume Piolat wrote:
> On Wednesday, 3 June 2020 at 11:12:08 UTC, aberba wrote:
>>
>> What are you?
>
> It has been the case that my best _products_ happen to be done with D, so I haven't looked elsewhere. It's the language that let me think about the outcome the most, not sure if it make sense.

Makes a lot of sense.

On Wednesday, 3 June 2020 at 15:27:12 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
> D is the one language that I rarely feel like I am fighting it; there's the least barrier between brain and computer and when the language does get in the middle it generally actually helps prevent mistakes.
>
> Using other langs I just feel like I'm wasting time fighting it instead of getting work done.

I think that's testament to this... that there's not a thing you've never done in D. It's impressive what you do with D.

On Wednesday, 3 June 2020 at 11:12:08 UTC, aberba wrote:
> What are you?

All programming languages are bad. D is the least bad of them all.

On Wednesday, 3 June 2020 at 11:12:08 UTC, aberba wrote:
> I personally can't use any other system programming language due to the expressiveness and familiarity of D. Its familiar and some syntactic expressiveness are just hard to get in other systems languages...feels easier to model code in D.
>
> I don't use D primarily for work (Node.Js due to packages and cloud support...web services), but D is my go-to system language. Personally, wished I could use D for everything.
>
> I like the community here better, I like the engagement and support. Yeah, it's not perfect but way better than anywhere else I've been.
>
> What are you?

I use D primarily because of its performance, CTFE and over-all expressiveness in the language.

I don't really care much about libraries, I'm the kind of guy to write most stuff myself.

Of course I still use libraries but usually just "core" things.

On Wednesday, 3 June 2020 at 19:34:24 UTC, Andre Pany wrote:
> On Wednesday, 3 June 2020 at 18:50:08 UTC, matheus wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 3 June 2020 at 18:45:34 UTC, Andre Pany wrote:
>>> Yes there is always s.th. missing in D...
>>
>> What is s.th. ? "Something"?
>>
>> I tried google without luck.
>>
>> My gosh guys please think about non-native English people while writing.
>>
>> Matheus.
>
> Non native speaker here;)
> I thought I learnt in secondary school
> That you abbreviate something with s.th.
> But you are right, I also do not find it in google.
>
> Grüße aus dem Schwabenland
> Andre

n.th. to worry about ;-)

On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 9:15 PM aberba via Digitalmars-d < digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:

> I personally can't use any other system programming language due to the expressiveness and familiarity of D. Its familiar and some syntactic expressiveness are just hard to get in other systems languages...feels easier to model code in D.
>
> I don't use D primarily for work (Node.Js due to packages and cloud support...web services), but D is my go-to system language. Personally, wished I could use D for everything.
>
> I like the community here better, I like the engagement and support. Yeah, it's not perfect but way better than anywhere else I've been.
>
> What are you?
>

To be honest... because I'm too far in. I suffer from extreme sunk-cost syndrome.

I wrestle with the reality on a daily basis that D may have materially
damaged my career.
To be clear, I quite like D, although there's a bunch of weird and slightly
broken shit which gets in the way much more often than what's acceptable.
But relative to C/C++ (my professional career aseline (gamedev)), D is
comparatively so luxurious that I have developed such an extreme distaste
for C/C++ bullshit that I actually hate doing my real actual job in a lot
of practical ways.
I hate being paid good money to write terrible code, and then having my
peers and supervisors think that it's fine when it's actually terrible!!
The inevitable complexity creep predictably becomes unsustainable, and then
everyone's surprised as if nobody saw it coming 10 miles off, then we start
spending unreasonable amounts of lifetime trying to recover... and for some
reason, the business just keeps pouring money into it!
It's bizarre and insane that gamedev is populated by zealots that would
rather piss away insane amounts of money than to ask the question if
there's any better way out there.

So, my professional work is intolerable, but I can't use D
professionally... despite over a decade of effort to try and move in that
direction, and so many parts of the puzzle slowly falling into place.
Why aren't we there yet? There's always just a couple more things! And a
number of battles I fought for years and didn't win which are major issues
that haven't just gone away.
Why don't we fix them? Mostly political bullshit... mostly because I need
to convince Walter & Andrei what's important without always being able to
present concrete cases. The amount of time to make tiny maneuvers is crazy,
and opportunities in my workplace just keep passing us by... D seems to be
a hobby for most users, and few people actually really care for it to be a
commercial success, or they'd listen to those of us who want to use it
industrially for those things that are really important.

Do I keep hammering away? My tank's empty, but I don't know how or when to admit to myself that I need to stop pushing... accept that I'm a C/C++ programmer... but then I just hate programming. What am I supposed to do? I'm lost in a dark place :(

On Thursday, 4 June 2020 at 11:59:33 UTC, Manu wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 9:15 PM aberba via Digitalmars-d < digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
>
> To be honest... because I'm too far in. I suffer from extreme sunk-cost syndrome.
>
> [...]

That's a real case right there. I'm optimistic we'll get things together.

I like the idea about freezing things,for the most part, and fixing what we already have.

The real issues everyday devs find troubling.

On Thursday, 4 June 2020 at 11:59:33 UTC, Manu wrote:
> Do I keep hammering away? My tank's empty, but I don't know how or when to admit to myself that I need to stop pushing... accept that I'm a C/C++ programmer... but then I just hate programming. What am I supposed to do? I'm lost in a dark place :(

Was a D programmer stuck in C++ setting (oh, the pain). I can guarantee a small internal tool takes twice the time to build in C++ vs D.

Since going indie C++ is now the competition. I know it's bad, but it's a pretty good feeling when competitors talk about their 6-hours-long builds, or try to explain concepts to each other.

On Thursday, 4 June 2020 at 13:02:06 UTC, Guillaume Piolat wrote:
> On Thursday, 4 June 2020 at 11:59:33 UTC, Manu wrote:
>> Do I keep hammering away? My tank's empty, but I don't know how or when to admit to myself that I need to stop pushing... accept that I'm a C/C++ programmer... but then I just hate programming. What am I supposed to do? I'm lost in a dark place :(
>
> Was a D programmer stuck in C++ setting (oh, the pain). I can guarantee a small internal tool takes twice the time to build in C++ vs D.
>
> Since going indie C++ is now the competition. I know it's bad, but it's a pretty good feeling when competitors talk about their 6-hours-long builds, or try to explain concepts to each other.

cough cough some people have 5 hours builds in D.
They build the world though.

On Thursday, 4 June 2020 at 11:59:33 UTC, Manu wrote:
> It's bizarre and insane that gamedev is populated by zealots that would
> rather piss away insane amounts of money than to ask the question if
> there's any better way out there.

Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice shows how inefficient some game studios are at making playable content. For 30€ there is a lot of game in it. Compared that to other projects where 2 mil copies sold at 60€ is below expectation and not financially sustainable.

> Why don't we fix them? Mostly political bullshit... mostly because I need
> to convince Walter & Andrei what's important without always being able to
> present concrete cases.

I have seen your proposals and they look like you want to fix your problem quickly and with least amount of work. This is good approach for game development but bad for language changes. If you make a mistake in game no big deal. But if you make a mistake in language design you might have to pay for that mistake for over a decade. Should I say string auto decoding...