This is slightly different to what Barry is after but is
a great feature of Java.
For the last two days I have been "dig"ing around
looking for a GUI library for D that actually works.
One is not up to date with D yet(which is understandable considering the
pace of D's development)
 and the other doesnt have a working Windows version.
With these libraries as you know there is a lot of stuffing
around building them and downloading other software
to make them compatible.
With Java it is much easier for example. If you want
to write JavaMail programs, you just download the
JavaMail API. Drop "mail.jar" into the jre's lib\ext
dir and that is all you have to do. Its a matter of minutes, or less.
Its very handy.

It would be good if D could have somthing like this.

Phill.

"davepermen" <davepermen_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:bt2j9r$ieq$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> >Why have D at all if it can all be done though scripting? Scripting isn't as efficient.  There are many things that can't be done with scripting.  Why then did 3dsmax include the SDK at all?
>
> uhm.. if i remember, that sdk is c++, and creates dlls, and has no need
for that
> fancy fuzz that got requested here, and works well dynamic without
recompiling
> max itself everytime you add a plugin:D
>
> >How would you do a D implementation (not max) like that then, taking in mind that each plugin/component is programmed by a different group of people, without access to the other's code. And keeping it reasonably efficient.
> like i've shown before (haven't i?) for plugins.. com works great, and is essencially what you ask for. com objects can use others, and don't know
how
> they work internally. you can replace them, make new ones, etc.. all
without any
> hassle, all fully dynamic. guess what happens when you download a patch
for
> windows? exactly that. you get some new COMponents that replace the old
ones.
> your system won't even notice
>
> >BTW
> >I'm not trying to be defensive, I'm actually interested in other ways of
> >thinking about this problem.
> sure.
>
> i'm still interested in getting my answer: what do you need the dynamic instantiation of unknown type for if you at compile time a) know its base
type
> (interface), or b) don't know its base type (interested how your exe then
uses
> the actual object)
>
> a) works great without rtti
> b) will never work, except if you can script a bit around at runtime..
>
>
> oh, and D is not a good scripting language. but a great plugin language
anyways.
> and it's a great language for giving the user ability to code realtime
such
> plugins (even in your very application.. just add a scintilla window, and
share
> the dmd with the user.. all you need for rtcompilation is about 700kb,
and, if
> you set up the paths right in the sc.ini file, it can all be done without
any
> issue with one system(char[] cmdLine) call. very nice, not? when the user presses [RUN], then it gets compiled into a dll, loaded, and executed.
>
> i've done that yet. for me, thats enough scripting power for my apps..
>
> D is simply no real cmdline scripting language, phyton or so fits there
much
> bether.
>
>

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 14:58:43 +1100, Phill wrote:

> This is slightly different to what Barry is after but is
> a great feature of Java.
> For the last two days I have been "dig"ing around
> looking for a GUI library for D that actually works.
> One is not up to date with D yet(which is understandable considering the
> pace of D's development)
>  and the other doesnt have a working Windows version.
> With these libraries as you know there is a lot of stuffing
> around building them and downloading other software
> to make them compatible.
> With Java it is much easier for example. If you want
> to write JavaMail programs, you just download

like the watter that comes from your tap:
You have no idea where it comes from and you don't care.

> the
> JavaMail API. Drop "mail.jar" into the jre's lib\ext
> dir and that is all you have to do. Its a matter of minutes, or less.
> Its very handy.
> 
> It would be good if D could have somthing like this.
> 
> Phill.

Let me remind you that those are the work of volunteers. You can always build yours.

let me also say that DUI works perfectly
(in it's expected alpha quality) with dmd 0.74
both on Linux and Windows.

further more why do you need it?
just interface directly with C.

Do you have a bugget to build such libraries?

Hopefully some one, some day will be able to gather a few
developers and start a big project.
Until then I will have, and share, DUI.

One of the main objectives of DUI is to generate interest on D. The other objective is to let ME write D GUI apps.

thank you. you made me forget my terrible cold for 3 minutes.

Ant

http://dui.sourceforge.net

Phill wrote:
> This is slightly different to what Barry is after but is
> a great feature of Java.
> For the last two days I have been "dig"ing around
> looking for a GUI library for D that actually works.
> One is not up to date with D yet(which is understandable considering the
> pace of D's development)
>  and the other doesnt have a working Windows version.
> With these libraries as you know there is a lot of stuffing
> around building them and downloading other software
> to make them compatible.
> With Java it is much easier for example. If you want
> to write JavaMail programs, you just download the
> JavaMail API. Drop "mail.jar" into the jre's lib\ext
> dir and that is all you have to do. Its a matter of minutes, or less.
> Its very handy.
> 
> It would be good if D could have somthing like this.
> 
> Phill.

It already can, really.  All it needs is for a convention to be set forth.  Since packages are a part of the language, it's not much to ask that everybody put their libraries in a package, and copy all the imports to one big holding directory.  -I is something we could use less of. :)

Also, if the import libs get glommed into the binary lib itself, (as digc can do alerady) it's that much easier.

 -- andy

It wasnt meant as an insult to your work.
I am just trying to get people to look at this from a beginners point of
view, people that are trying to learn a language that
everyone wants to become a popular language.

"Ant" <duitoolkit@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:pan.2004.01.02.05.00.25.458497@yahoo.ca...
> On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 14:58:43 +1100, Phill wrote:
>
> > This is slightly different to what Barry is after but is
> > a great feature of Java.
> > For the last two days I have been "dig"ing around
> > looking for a GUI library for D that actually works.
> > One is not up to date with D yet(which is understandable considering the
> > pace of D's development)
> >  and the other doesnt have a working Windows version.
> > With these libraries as you know there is a lot of stuffing
> > around building them and downloading other software
> > to make them compatible.
> > With Java it is much easier for example. If you want
> > to write JavaMail programs, you just download
>
> like the watter that comes from your tap:
> You have no idea where it comes from and you don't care.

Nor do most people that use the water, but  we all cant go out and dig a well just learn how to use it, instead in our ignorance we turn the tap on.

>
> > the
> > JavaMail API. Drop "mail.jar" into the jre's lib\ext
> > dir and that is all you have to do. Its a matter of minutes, or less.
> > Its very handy.
> >
> > It would be good if D could have somthing like this.
> >
> > Phill.
>
> Let me remind you that those are the work of volunteers. You can always build yours.

No I cant because I dont have the experience, maybe by the time I am 14 or 15 yrs old I might.

>
> let me also say that DUI works perfectly
> (in it's expected alpha quality) with dmd 0.74
> both on Linux and Windows.

If you read my post again you might notice I wrote this:

"One is not up to date with D yet(which is understandable considering the
 pace of D's development)"

I have the latest DMD.

>
> further more why do you need it?
> just interface directly with C.

because I am a learner......

>
> Do you have a bugget to build such libraries?

what is a bugget?

>
> Hopefully some one, some day will be able to gather a few
> developers and start a big project.
> Until then I will have, and share, DUI.
>
> One of the main objectives of DUI is to generate interest on D. The other objective is to let ME write D GUI apps.
>
> thank you. you made me forget my terrible cold for 3 minutes.

your welcome!
Phill.

>
> Ant
>
> http://dui.sourceforge.net
>

"Andy Friesen" <andy@ikagames.com> wrote in message news:bt3b09$1mm2$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> Phill wrote:
> > This is slightly different to what Barry is after but is
> > a great feature of Java.
> > For the last two days I have been "dig"ing around
> > looking for a GUI library for D that actually works.
> > One is not up to date with D yet(which is understandable considering the
> > pace of D's development)
> >  and the other doesnt have a working Windows version.
> > With these libraries as you know there is a lot of stuffing
> > around building them and downloading other software
> > to make them compatible.
> > With Java it is much easier for example. If you want
> > to write JavaMail programs, you just download the
> > JavaMail API. Drop "mail.jar" into the jre's lib\ext
> > dir and that is all you have to do. Its a matter of minutes, or less.
> > Its very handy.
> >
> > It would be good if D could have somthing like this.
> >
> > Phill.
>
> It already can, really.  All it needs is for a convention to be set forth.  Since packages are a part of the language, it's not much to ask that everybody put their libraries in a package, and copy all the imports to one big holding directory.  -I is something we could use less of. :)
>
> Also, if the import libs get glommed into the binary lib itself, (as digc can do alerady) it's that much easier.
>
>   -- andy

That sounds like it would make life easier

Phill.

Drop "mail.jar" into the jre's lib\ext
>dir and that is all you have to do. Its a matter of minutes, or less. Its very handy.

but you still have to manually code with the mail package then. and the "feature" how you call it, is just the virtual machine feature. D will not have a virtual machine (by default). a D.NET possibly will, if ever.

this is even yet possible, when you just download a mail.d file and use it:D if coded properly.

problem is, in java, sun is behind the scenes hard working on making all features on all platforms available. this is unique. but its not a great feature of java. its merely great work of sun

"davepermen" <davepermen_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:bt79td$1gkf$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> Drop "mail.jar" into the jre's lib\ext
> >dir and that is all you have to do. Its a matter of minutes, or less. Its very handy.
>
> but you still have to manually code with the mail package then. and the "feature" how you call it, is just the virtual machine feature.

Im well aware of that....

> this is even yet possible, when you just download a mail.d file and use
it:D if
> coded properly.

That is good then as long as you dont have to use Makefiles and stuff that dont work.

>
> problem is, in java, sun is behind the scenes hard working on making all features on all platforms available. this is unique. but its not a great
feature
> of java. its merely great work of sun

Well thats like saying a great house does not have great features, its just that it was merely great work from the builder.

In article <bt7aju$1hoi$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Phill says...
>
>
>"davepermen" <davepermen_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:bt79td$1gkf$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>> Drop "mail.jar" into the jre's lib\ext
>> >dir and that is all you have to do. Its a matter of minutes, or less. Its very handy.
>>
>> but you still have to manually code with the mail package then. and the "feature" how you call it, is just the virtual machine feature.
>
>Im well aware of that....
>
>> this is even yet possible, when you just download a mail.d file and use
>it:D if
>> coded properly.
>
>That is good then as long as you dont have to use Makefiles and stuff that dont work.
>
>>
>> problem is, in java, sun is behind the scenes hard working on making all features on all platforms available. this is unique. but its not a great
>feature
>> of java. its merely great work of sun
>
>Well thats like saying a great house does not have great features, its just that it was merely great work from the builder.
>
>
>
>

i just say its not a language feature, but simply a part of the good work of sun to provide a complete and platform independent library.

the other issue is only a linker issue (and is actually planned to get resolved in a future dmd version..)

> i just say its not a language feature, but simply a part of the good work
of sun
> to provide a complete and platform independent library.
>
> the other issue is only a linker issue (and is actually planned to get
resolved
> in a future dmd version..)

cool!

I looked at a tutorial last night and it looks not too
hard to learn, what I saw looked a bit like Java
coding which I am used to. But I think eventually
D will be better because it will be more closer to
the System(Java being like the third person).

All I can say is that you guys are doing a great and
very fast job!
The biggest problem that I can see is the developers
of D keeping up with each other and the latest version.(not that I know
much)
How many of you are there?

Phill

thats just a problem till version 1.0.

after then, it will be final till the end of days..


okay, it will not:D

but its really no big problem imho. at least i hadn't have any yet. and after 1.0, yes, you don't need to really update, only for bugfixes, or, if you're interested in testing out new, promoted features.

the standard library will change quite some times i guess.. currently, we're merely all collecting reusable features.. having them in a general, generic, oo, etc design that works all nice and proper together, that'll come with time.

In article <bt7eon$1ntd$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Phill says...
>
>
>> i just say its not a language feature, but simply a part of the good work
>of sun
>> to provide a complete and platform independent library.
>>
>> the other issue is only a linker issue (and is actually planned to get
>resolved
>> in a future dmd version..)
>
>cool!
>
>I looked at a tutorial last night and it looks not too
>hard to learn, what I saw looked a bit like Java
>coding which I am used to. But I think eventually
>D will be better because it will be more closer to
>the System(Java being like the third person).
>
>All I can say is that you guys are doing a great and
>very fast job!
>The biggest problem that I can see is the developers
>of D keeping up with each other and the latest version.(not that I know
>much)
>How many of you are there?
>
>Phill
>
>