Derek Parnell <derek@psych.ward> wrote in news:t9y12220a7kb.1g2gp8m600idb$.dlg@40tude.net:

> On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 05:18:49 +0000 (UTC), IkeaTheSofa wrote:
> 
>> Kris <Kris_member@pathlink.com> wrote in news:cveefb$1ots$1@digitaldaemon.com:
>> 
>>> In article <cv9g7bk4uaw2.w0ltmbeb826k.dlg@40tude.net>, Derek Parnell says...
>>>>
>>>>On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:42:55 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.
>>>>>> Not true, my friend.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the lack of an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing. I'd love to teach my friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but that would also mean I'd have to teach him how to compile everything from the commandline and link it and figure out linker errors and etc.. There is no way to make a project, type some code, and have it run.  Though if I finish my IDE once I get some time, that might change.. ;)
>>>>
>>>>My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets! And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)
>>> 
>>> You were lucky! We used t'dream o 'aving a compiler! Had two bits of broken ol' sticks that wer 'ad to knock together t'make our own shift-registers!
>>> 
>>> Compiler? Huh ~ luxury ...
>>> 
>> 
>> I'm 22, so I'm not sure if I was even a glimmer in my fathers eyes when you two (Darek and Kris) started programming.. I've been taught using an IDE and I guess must seem needy to not know how to use the command line and such. Just really want to learn D and am willing to go to whatever lengths it takes. I've been researching D for a few days now and it amuses me the amount of people promising to make an IDE and these post turn out to be 2 or three years ago and I still can't find anything remotely like a full functioning IDE. I have had a hard time even getting a text editor to do the syntax coloring right.. the closest i've come is Crimson Editor and it seems anemic at best. Thanks for everyones thoughts
> 
> Okay, I'll have a go. BTW, I use Crimson too. Sometimes Code-Genie, and sometimes EmEditor, depending on the task at hand. No one editor ever seems good enough to do everything I want.
> 
> Do you understand the Windows (DOS) PATH concept? If not, it is one of a few 'environment variables' that you can define for your system. The PATH variable contains a list of folders where Windows will look in to find a program that you need to run.
> 
> On Windows XP...
> 1) Right-click on the "My Computer" icon and select "Properties" from
> the popup menu.
> 2) Select the "Advanced" tab
> 3) Click on the "Environment Variables" button near the bottom of the
> window. This will show you two lists of variables - user ones and
> system ones.
> 4a) If you can see a "PATH" variable in the user list, click on that
> then press the "Edit" button.
> 4b) If you cannot see a "PATH" variable in the user list, click on the
> "New" button.
> 5) You will see an editbox for Variable name. Make sure this is
> "PATH". 6) You will see an editbox for the Variable's value. If this
> already has stuff in it, look thru it to see if it mention's where you
> installed DMD to. I believe in your case it is "C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin".
> 7) If it has both "C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin" and "C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin" there you
> are okay and can close these windows now. Otherwise move the cursor to
> the end of the current list of folders (in the value box), and add
> this ...
>   ";C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin;C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin"
> 
> **NOTICE** the semicolon at the beginning of this new entry and the
> one in between the two paths.
> 8) Now press the various "Ok" buttons to save your results.
> 
> To test this, start up a new command window. (Press the green "start" button and select "Run...", enter in "cmd" and press "Ok".)
> 
> When the prompt comes up, change folders to "C:\"  (type in "cd c:\")
> Now type in "dmd".  List show display the dmd usage info.
> Now type in "link". This should display the OptLink copyright info.
> 
> To compile your program, go to the folder your source code is in. For example, if you saved it in "C:\My Projects\D\" you would type in "cd c:\my projects\d"
> 
> If you called your program "dtest.d" (you must end it in ".d" btw),
> type in "dmd dtest"
> 
> This will compile and link your test program. To run your program, type in "dtest"
> 
> There, that'll do for now.
> 

Thanks for all your help derek. I do know about the path variables and tried to specify them when I first tried dmd. It turns out that I had not extracted the files correctly and didn't have the dmc files in the dm/bin/ folder. Although I still can't call dmd withouth being in the directory where dmd is. I'm going to restart and see if that helps. I have got it to compile and am really happy to be starting with D. Thanks Again!

>I'm 22, so I'm not sure if I was even a glimmer in my fathers eyes when you two (Darek and Kris) started programming.. I've been taught using an IDE and I guess must seem needy to not know how to use the command line and such. Just really want to learn D and am willing to go to whatever lengths it takes. I've been researching D for a few days now and it amuses me the amount of people promising to make an IDE and these post turn out to be 2 or three years ago and I still can't find anything remotely like a full functioning IDE. I have had a hard time even getting a text editor to do the syntax coloring right.. the closest i've come is Crimson Editor and it seems anemic at best. Thanks for everyones thoughts

One may still get DIDE (dide_full_995a_UNSUPPORTED.zip) at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dide/ . After joining the group click files on the left menu and choose the file name above.

Derek Parnell wrote:
> My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first
> learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets!
> And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)

Same here! And two compiles per day _if you were lucky_, today's
people just cannot believe that was literally true!

For a second compile I regularly had to buy, bribe, lie, cheat,
and such.

I did FORTRAN, and I still have puch cards as mementos.

-----

More seriously, I have taught programming, and the classes where
we used only a compiler fared much better than those where we
used an IDE.

Using just a compiler, lets you "just do programming", but an IDE
has all kinds of bells and whistles and fills your screen with
a lot of stuff and icons and buttons. And "helpful" things that
pop up right in the middle of where you are writing. So
programming, and especially trying to learn the concepts gets
kind of shovelled to the side.

And you can't help the feeling that it was not you who created
the program, but the IDE. But with a plain compiler and a text
editor, you _know_ that what you created, you did yourself!

IkeaTheSofa wrote:

> I have had a hard time even getting a text editor to do the syntax coloring right.. the closest i've come is Crimson Editor and it seems anemic at best. Thanks for everyones thoughts
> 

I have no trouble with Crimson Editor and D. Perhaps you don't have the proper d.key and d.spc files? Here's a copy/paste d.spc for you:

-------- COPY BELOW THIS LINE --------------------------------------

# D LANGUAGE (DigitalMars.com) SPECIFICATION FILE FOR CRIMSON EDITOR # FIRST EDITED BY Srecko Howard 30/01/04

$CASESENSITIVE=YES
$DELIMITERS=~`!@#$%^&*()-+=|\{}[]:;"',.<>/?
$KEYWORDPREFIX=#
$HEXADECIMALMARK=0x
$ESCAPECHAR=\
$QUOTATIONMARK1="
$QUOTATIONMARK2='
$LINECOMMENT=//
$BLOCKCOMMENTON=/*
$BLOCKCOMMENTOFF=*/
$INDENTATIONON={
$INDENTATIONOFF=}
$PAIRS1=()
$PAIRS2=[]
$PAIRS3={}
#$PAIRS4=!()

--------- COPY ABOVE THIS LINE -------------------------------------

Copy the above and paste it over your existing d.spc, or create a new one if it doesn't exist. This should be in the Crimson Editor\spec directory.

Attached is an updated d.key file with keywords that were not in the original (such as 'package'). This should also go in the Crimson Editor\spec directory.

The only problem I've had at all with syntax highlighting in CE is when using /+...+/ comment blocks. The spc file only allows you to specify one type of block comment. The last $BLOCKCOMMENTON/OFF pair specified will overwrite the first one. Otherwise, everything works as expected.

In article <421AFBBB.5040404@nospam.org>, Georg Wrede says...
>
>And you can't help the feeling that it was not you who created the program, but the IDE. But with a plain compiler and a text editor, you _know_ that what you created, you did yourself!

Thanks, Georg!
I feel this is the reason why most people here try to use D.

Georg Wrede schrieb:
> Using just a compiler, lets you "just do programming", but an IDE
> has all kinds of bells and whistles and fills your screen with
> a lot of stuff and icons and buttons. And "helpful" things that
> pop up right in the middle of where you are writing. So
> programming, and especially trying to learn the concepts gets
> kind of shovelled to the side.

OK, you're probably right on that one. But I still think that learning programming with Python is easier to do than learning it with D. :)

-Sebastian

Since I'm actually _from_ Yorkshire, I shall simply hang back and imagine all the risible attempts at a Yorkshire accent from all you foreigners. (Foreign to Yorkshire, of course <g>)

"Kris" <Kris_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:cveefb$1ots$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> In article <cv9g7bk4uaw2.w0ltmbeb826k.dlg@40tude.net>, Derek Parnell says...
>>
>>On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:42:55 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
>>
>>>>>D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.
>>>> Not true, my friend.
>>>
>>> Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the
>>> lack of
>>> an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing.  I'd love to
>>> teach my
>>> friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but that would also
>>> mean I'd
>>> have to teach him how to compile everything from the commandline and
>>> link it
>>> and figure out linker errors and etc.. There is no way to make a
>>> project,
>>> type some code, and have it run.  Though if I finish my IDE once I
>>> get some
>>> time, that might change.. ;)
>>
>>My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets! And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)
>
> You were lucky! We used t'dream o 'aving a compiler! Had two bits of
> broken ol'
> sticks that wer 'ad to knock together t'make our own shift-registers!
>
> Compiler? Huh ~ luxury ...
>
> 

Oh, go on Matthew ~ education is a wonderful thing, and typing one's rendition of an accent is often funnier than the content (should see some of the daft Scottish ones I stumble upon). As I understand it, you and a number of others were

"living in a shoebox, in the middle of a lake ..."



In article <cvgvm8$2h4f$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Matthew says...
>
>Since I'm actually _from_ Yorkshire, I shall simply hang back and imagine all the risible attempts at a Yorkshire accent from all you foreigners. (Foreign to Yorkshire, of course <g>)
>
>"Kris" <Kris_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:cveefb$1ots$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>> In article <cv9g7bk4uaw2.w0ltmbeb826k.dlg@40tude.net>, Derek Parnell says...
>>>
>>>On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:42:55 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.
>>>>> Not true, my friend.
>>>>
>>>> Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the
>>>> lack of
>>>> an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing.  I'd love to
>>>> teach my
>>>> friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but that would also
>>>> mean I'd
>>>> have to teach him how to compile everything from the commandline and
>>>> link it
>>>> and figure out linker errors and etc.. There is no way to make a
>>>> project,
>>>> type some code, and have it run.  Though if I finish my IDE once I
>>>> get some
>>>> time, that might change.. ;)
>>>
>>>My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets! And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)
>>
>> You were lucky! We used t'dream o 'aving a compiler! Had two bits of
>> broken ol'
>> sticks that wer 'ad to knock together t'make our own shift-registers!
>>
>> Compiler? Huh ~ luxury ...
>>
>> 
>
>

Not bad. Can I edit this into a "Tech Tip" and put it on the web site?

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 19:10:55 -0800, Walter wrote:

> Not bad. Can I edit this into a "Tech Tip" and put it on the web site?

Go ahead...knock yourself out!

-- 
Derek
Melbourne, Australia
25/02/2005 2:24:30 PM