I have been reading this newsgroup for several years. Although I post rarely I do read it every day. Early on I was so enthusiastic about D I could barely contain myself. I could not wait to use D at work, replacing C++ and Java. I'm still patiently waiting for that day. With C++/CLI soon a reality, improvements to C++ coming, together with existing versions of C# and Java, all with huge libraries ready to use out of the box, will D every be able to compete?

Jason

Jason Mills wrote:
> I have been reading this newsgroup for several years. Although I post rarely I do read it every day. Early on I was so enthusiastic about D I could barely contain myself. I could not wait to use D at work, replacing C++ and Java. I'm still patiently waiting for that day. With C++/CLI soon a reality, improvements to C++ coming, together with existing versions of C# and Java, all with huge libraries ready to use out of the box, will D every be able to compete?

D as a language already is competitive with both C# and Java - I guess

http://www.digitalmars.com/d/comparison.html

speaks for itself in this respect.

Of course, whether it will have a standard library to match C# and Java is another matter.  There is potential for Phobos to grow, even more so with its being open source.  But OTOH, it's debatable what features are best put into a standard library, as opposed to left out to encourage competing third-party libraries to develop.  Sometimes there are many ways to do something and none is obviously the best - so different libraries would implement different approaches.  The various D GUI libraries being developed with different designs and goals are an example of this.

But the combination of Phobos and third-party D libraries certainly has a huge potential.  Once we have enough D programmers, there will be a good collection of library functionality for various purposes, which may eventually be up to a par with what is available for C# and Java.

Stewart.

-- 
My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox.  Please keep replies on the 'group where everyone may benefit.

So am I !!! Now I am getting bored. Version 1.0 seems like a dream now. I guess I too need to take a break from obsessively following this ng.

sai


In article <d04ccv$2nh7$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Jason Mills says...
>
>I have been reading this newsgroup for several years. Although I post rarely I do read it every day. Early on I was so enthusiastic about D I could barely contain myself. I could not wait to use D at work, replacing C++ and Java. I'm still patiently waiting for that day. With C++/CLI soon a reality, improvements to C++ coming, together with existing versions of C# and Java, all with huge libraries ready to use out of the box, will D every be able to compete?
>
>Jason

"Jason Mills" <jmills@cs.mun.ca> wrote in message news:d04ccv$2nh7$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>I have been reading this newsgroup for several years. Although I post rarely I do read it every day. Early on I was so enthusiastic about D I could barely contain myself. I could not wait to use D at work, replacing C++ and Java. I'm still patiently waiting for that day. With C++/CLI soon a reality, improvements to C++ coming, together with existing versions of C# and Java, all with huge libraries ready to use out of the box, will D every be able to compete?
>
> Jason

Not to single you out, but the best way to help D compete is to get invovled. I'm talkin' to all of you out there sittin' on the fence - yeah you know who you are! :-) If everyone waits for D to arrive it will never arrive (deep, eh?).

The day dmd-1.0.zip comes out it will be a nice time to reflect a little and start planning for what to do next, but practically speaking it will a lot like dmd-0.nnn.zip. I don't think there was a day that C++ suddenly arrived. It just grew and grew. Java and C# have huge marketing machines behind them so they try to trumpet milestones as changing the world - but mostly the world changes very slowly. Hence the importance of all the libraries/tools/community surrounding what Walter does.

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 09:11:11 -0330, Jason Mills wrote:

> I have been reading this newsgroup for several years. Although I post rarely I do read it every day. Early on I was so enthusiastic about D I could barely contain myself. I could not wait to use D at work, replacing C++ and Java. I'm still patiently waiting for that day. With C++/CLI soon a reality, improvements to C++ coming, together with existing versions of C# and Java, all with huge libraries ready to use out of the box, will D every be able to compete?
> 
> Jason
By the phrase "be ready", do you mean "be finished"? If so, then I doubt whether it will ever be really finished. But if you are asking will it ever be in a state in which we can use it, then I guess it is vert nearly there now. And over then next year or two, it will only get better (most cost effective) to use. Currently, it will take a bit of work on your part to make things happen, but better libraries and better code generation, and hopefully better syntax, are still to come.

Even though there are some bugs still in the current DMD implementation, I haven't seen too many in which incorrect object code is being created.

So I suggest you start using D with a purpose, if only to get some practice in how to think in D. Also, try to find a library project, or some other way in which you can personally contribute to the future of D.

-- 
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
http://www.dsource.org/projects/build
3/03/2005 2:19:11 AM

Jason Mills wrote:
> I have been reading this newsgroup for several years. Although I post rarely I do read it every day. Early on I was so enthusiastic about D I could barely contain myself. I could not wait to use D at work, replacing C++ and Java. I'm still patiently waiting for that day. With C++/CLI soon a reality, improvements to C++ coming, together with existing versions of C# and Java, all with huge libraries ready to use out of the box, will D every be able to compete?
> 
> Jason

This is more of a personal philosophical question. It all depends your point of view. For some, D is already pretty good and does what they need to get done better than c++. For some (more advanced?), D is not quite ready and gets a lot of requests for reflection, and some don't like some design aspect of D, or D is bugged for them and are waiting for a fix.

If D works for you and you can convince your workplace, more power to you. You see D won't just magically replace c++ without a bit of successful advocacy, but I wouldn't try to advocate it until it is ready for your workplace, or else people will get bad first impressions. Speaking of which, I don't expect D to make huge inroads until we get a 1.0 version along with a book, maybe big W + M can go on a book tour ;)

For me (as kinda an intermediate newbie), I guess I'm too ignorant to notice/understand whatever is wrong with phobos and D. So it works for me and I use it.

"Jason Mills" <jmills@cs.mun.ca> wrote in message news:d04ccv$2nh7$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> I have been reading this newsgroup for several years. Although I post rarely I do read it every day. Early on I was so enthusiastic about D I could barely contain myself. I could not wait to use D at work, replacing C++ and Java. I'm still patiently waiting for that day. With C++/CLI soon a reality, improvements to C++ coming, together with existing versions of C# and Java, all with huge libraries ready to use out of the box, will D every be able to compete?

I've found myself wondering over the last few months what "1.0" actually is. Since D will undergo continuous improvement regardless, why don't we just drive a stake in the ground and call what we have "1.0"?

Walter wrote:
> "Jason Mills" <jmills@cs.mun.ca> wrote in message
> news:d04ccv$2nh7$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> 
>>I have been reading this newsgroup for several years. Although I post
>>rarely I do read it every day. Early on I was so enthusiastic about D I
>>could barely contain myself. I could not wait to use D at work,
>>replacing C++ and Java. I'm still patiently waiting for that day. With
>>C++/CLI soon a reality, improvements to C++ coming, together with
>>existing versions of C# and Java, all with huge libraries ready to use
>>out of the box, will D every be able to compete?
> 
> 
> I've found myself wondering over the last few months what "1.0" actually is.
> Since D will undergo continuous improvement regardless, why don't we just
> drive a stake in the ground and call what we have "1.0"?
> 
> 

I think D 1.0 is the day you are ready to make D public and face scrutinization from all those c++ programmers, and the day when people will start to think of D not as a concept but a serious language. Sure, you could call it 1.0 now, but are you ready for the aftermath? It would be tragic for the vast majority of people to try D 1.0, get a false impression from (insert bug/whatever) here, and never try it again.

Then again, theoretically, the sooner D goes out the door, the better chance it may have to gain a foothold on the other c++ improvements (C#, Java), unless you think those languages arn't competitive to D and cater to different markets. (D seems to be for low level stuff, and Java C# high level GUI type stuff).

If I were W, I would set a 1.0 date for D and release it with the book so that you will have the time to critically analize D and iron it out into a smooth machine, before the c++ programmer's can get ahold of it, critically anylize it, and try to dismiss it for (insert random drawback here). Cause ya know, from momentum, c++ is not going to be easily pushed aside for D.

In article <d04ccv$2nh7$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Jason Mills says...
>
>I have been reading this newsgroup for several years. Although I post rarely I do read it every day. Early on I was so enthusiastic about D I could barely contain myself. I could not wait to use D at work, replacing C++ and Java. I'm still patiently waiting for that day. With C++/CLI soon a reality, improvements to C++ coming, together with existing versions of C# and Java, all with huge libraries ready to use out of the box, will D every be able to compete?
>
>Jason

I've already done more programs in d for tasks and for utilities than java and c.  (I don't do much c++).  Perl and Python, well, they are easy to script and to throw together so I've written more on those languages.  But, d is here and here to stay, my friend.  To me is already ready.  It may need adjustments here and there, and it may still be lacking certain maturity, but I love the sense of just sending someone an executable file that does a task without having to install JRE or python or perl.  D is here and it's only going to get better. Start using it. :-)

jic

The questin is, what are you guys waiting for?

In article <d04i8j$2ucb$1@digitaldaemon.com>, sai says...
>
>So am I !!! Now I am getting bored. Version 1.0 seems like a dream now. I guess I too need to take a break from obsessively following this ng.
>
>sai
>
>
>In article <d04ccv$2nh7$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Jason Mills says...
>>
>>I have been reading this newsgroup for several years. Although I post rarely I do read it every day. Early on I was so enthusiastic about D I could barely contain myself. I could not wait to use D at work, replacing C++ and Java. I'm still patiently waiting for that day. With C++/CLI soon a reality, improvements to C++ coming, together with existing versions of C# and Java, all with huge libraries ready to use out of the box, will D every be able to compete?
>>
>>Jason
>
>