Craig Black wrote:
>>Maybe somebody already has a nice, simplistic STL? Or, if there's no group
>>effort yet, maybe somebody wants to help me code a tiny, but powerful STL.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps I could help.  I am a C++ programmer that has a lot of experience writing C++ templates.  I personally don't like C++ STL, so I wrote my own template library.  It's WAY easier to use than C++ STL and more powerful IMO.  It currently only lacks a hash table template, but I understand that capability is provided by D natively.  I've never programmed in D, but I've kept my eye on the language since it was introduced on the internet.  To get a library started, I could port my templates to D.

maybe you could get a project at dsource.org, post your c++ templates online, then the community can help speed up the c++ --> d process.


> However, I do not like the idea of having to rely on a slow GC.  I understand that D supports the old new and delete approach.  This would be better for container templates IMO.

D doesn't force anyone to use the GC. Adding your own new/delete doesn't hurt either. Just give the users of your library the option of using the GC or not.

> 
> Anyone interested?
> 
> -Craig 
> 
> 

> maybe you could get a project at dsource.org, post your c++ templates online, then the community can help speed up the c++ --> d process.

Sure.  Just keep in mind that these templates are easy to use but the implementation is involved.  How would I go about doing that?

-Craig

Craig Black wrote:
>>maybe you could get a project at dsource.org, post your c++ templates online, then the community can help speed up the c++ --> d process.
> 
> 
> Sure.  Just keep in mind that these templates are easy to use but the implementation is involved.  How would I go about doing that?
> 
> -Craig
> 
> 

There's a forum on dsource named 'potential projects' where you make a post about your project and what its goals are etc. Note you need to register before you can post. (http://www.dsource.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=13)

Then the admin (brad) will set up a svn directory for you to post the project. SVN is very straightfoward IMO, and on windows you can use a good graphical frontend called tourtise svn.

So you can check out the default stuff in your directory with a command similar to , 'right click -->checkout' or ...

svn co http://svn.dsource.org/svn/projects/myproject

which will create 'myproject' folder on your desktop/wherever.
you can then add / remove files and folders as you wish, and it will be accessable to anyone with an internet connection. you can make changes and update the folder as need be.

with tortoise on windows it shouldn't be harder than 'right click' and 'add folder'

on linux, just a command line 'svn add folder/' after you get it installed (apt-get install subversion on debian)

http://subversion.tigris.org/ for more about subversion
www.dsource.org/ 'getting started' reiterates most of what i'm saying

>>Go for it. Good bits can be folded in when we get serious on DTL.
>
> Do you have some sort of a roadmap or design document for the DTL?

Did have, but have been sidetracked in a big way for some time. Thankfully the process of doing DPD will cause it to receive focus.

Essentially, I'd like for it to be similar to STL in purpose: providing useful, consistent and efficient containers & algorithms, and also a framework/paradigm for extension.

I expect to get back to it before the month is out, and that minTL, DTL and anyone else's inputs in this area will coallesce before the end of the year. I know Walter's skeptical that it'll be ready for 1.0, but I think it will. (But then Walter and I have somewhat differing views on how far D has to go before it's 1.0-able. <g>)

Where can we find your C++ template library?

"Craig Black" <cblack@ara.com> wrote in message news:d0q4u9$2p9j$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>> Maybe somebody already has a nice, simplistic STL? Or, if there's no
>> group
>> effort yet, maybe somebody wants to help me code a tiny, but powerful
>> STL.
>
>
> Perhaps I could help.  I am a C++ programmer that has a lot of experience writing C++ templates.  I personally don't like C++ STL, so I wrote my own template library.  It's WAY easier to use than C++ STL and more powerful IMO.  It currently only lacks a hash table template, but I understand that capability is provided by D natively.  I've never programmed in D, but I've kept my eye on the language since it was introduced on the internet.  To get a library started, I could port my templates to D.
>
> However, I do not like the idea of having to rely on a slow GC.  I understand that D supports the old new and delete approach.  This would be better for container templates IMO.
>
> Anyone interested?
>
> -Craig
> 

Personally, I agree.  I mean, I've argued with people about garbage collection before, to convince them that in many ways it is a necessary evil; this is exactly as I believe.

However, some people take it too far, imho.  Instead of letting the garbage collector just help for the areas where it is needed, they let it take over everything.  This is good in many ways, and prevents mistakes... but I've always felt explicit deallocation is good too.

Explicitly deallocating memory you know you don't need to pass around, so long as you don't expect the garbage collector to really optimize the freeing of larger groups of data so easily, seems like only a good thing.  If phobos does this by default, all the better, no?

-[Unknown]


>>Have you actually tried the "slow GC"?
> 
> 
> No I haven't.  But I know for a fact that in its current state, it is slow. Walter says so himself.  It hasn't been optimized yet.  And I don't see Walter optimizing GC in the near future.
> 
> Let me clarify myself.  I do not mean to prevent programmers from using GC. I just don't want to use it internally for templates when there are more efficient ways of doing things.
> 
> -Craig 
> 
> 

In article <d0q4u9$2p9j$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Craig Black says...
>
>> Maybe somebody already has a nice, simplistic STL? Or, if there's no group effort yet, maybe somebody wants to help me code a tiny, but powerful STL.
>
>
>Perhaps I could help.  I am a C++ programmer that has a lot of experience writing C++ templates.  I personally don't like C++ STL, so I wrote my own template library.  It's WAY easier to use than C++ STL and more powerful IMO.  It currently only lacks a hash table template, but I understand that capability is provided by D natively.  I've never programmed in D, but I've kept my eye on the language since it was introduced on the internet.  To get a library started, I could port my templates to D.
>
>However, I do not like the idea of having to rely on a slow GC.  I understand that D supports the old new and delete approach.  This would be better for container templates IMO.
>
>Anyone interested?
>
>-Craig

If I am going to try to pull something off I need all the help I can get. However, it's always better to work on something in existance, I don't know how open DTL is. I have to say for myself that I'm not that much of an advanced programmer, but I know my things. The thing with the STL is that I always try to make it too perfect. Perhaps we could just port a STL. I tried to port the C++ STL earlier but that was such a load of work predicting all those preprocessors and figuring out in what order things were, I quit the very same day.

In article <d0qisj$7hl$2@digitaldaemon.com>, Matthew says...
>
>>>Go for it. Good bits can be folded in when we get serious on DTL.
>>
>> Do you have some sort of a roadmap or design document for the DTL?
>
>Did have, but have been sidetracked in a big way for some time. Thankfully the process of doing DPD will cause it to receive focus.
>
>Essentially, I'd like for it to be similar to STL in purpose: providing useful, consistent and efficient containers & algorithms, and also a framework/paradigm for extension.
>
>I expect to get back to it before the month is out, and that minTL, DTL and anyone else's inputs in this area will coallesce before the end of the year. I know Walter's skeptical that it'll be ready for 1.0, but I think it will. (But then Walter and I have somewhat differing views on how far D has to go before it's 1.0-able. <g>)

We should certainly work together, setting a STL for D. I think the C++ STL is a pretty good example of what it should look like, however, I also think that in D some things could look so much better. Iterator types for example, or anything you can think of.

By the end of the year... This year will still take pretty long. :P

"Joey Peters" <Joey_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:d0rp00$1haf$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> In article <d0q4u9$2p9j$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Craig Black says...
>>
>>> Maybe somebody already has a nice, simplistic STL? Or, if there's no
>>> group
>>> effort yet, maybe somebody wants to help me code a tiny, but
>>> powerful STL.
>>
>>
>>Perhaps I could help.  I am a C++ programmer that has a lot of
>>experience
>>writing C++ templates.  I personally don't like C++ STL, so I wrote my
>>own
>>template library.  It's WAY easier to use than C++ STL and more
>>powerful
>>IMO.  It currently only lacks a hash table template, but I understand
>>that
>>capability is provided by D natively.  I've never programmed in D, but
>>I've
>>kept my eye on the language since it was introduced on the internet.
>>To get
>>a library started, I could port my templates to D.
>>
>>However, I do not like the idea of having to rely on a slow GC.  I
>>understand that D supports the old new and delete approach.  This
>>would be
>>better for container templates IMO.
>>
>>Anyone interested?
>>
>>-Craig
>
> If I am going to try to pull something off I need all the help I can
> get.
> However, it's always better to work on something in existance, I don't
> know how
> open DTL is. I have to say for myself that I'm not that much of an
> advanced
> programmer, but I know my things. The thing with the STL is that I
> always try to
> make it too perfect. Perhaps we could just port a STL. I tried to port
> the C++
> STL earlier but that was such a load of work predicting all those
> preprocessors
> and figuring out in what order things were, I quit the very same day.

I think you need to show your wares, as it's a little difficult to judge where you're at / going to from these posts.

> Perhaps I could help.  I am a C++ programmer that has a lot of experience writing C++ templates.  I personally don't like C++ STL, so I wrote my own template library.  It's WAY easier to use than C++ STL and more powerful IMO.  It currently only lacks a hash table template, but I understand that capability is provided by D natively.  I've never programmed in D, but I've kept my eye on the language since it was introduced on the internet. To get a library started, I could port my templates to D.

Is this C++ library available for download?

Zz