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May 29, 2005 Debugging Symbol Information | ||||
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Hi Is the debugging info produced by DMD every gonna improve? I consider not being able to view globals, members or structs not good for debugging. D has all these lovely new features, and even now Walter is proposing more. But frankly, who cares? As long as you cant debug D programs properly, D is pretty much (dare I say it) useless. When is this gonna change? It should be a priority. |
May 29, 2005 Re: Debugging Symbol Information | ||||
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Posted in reply to imr1984 | On Sun, 29 May 2005 10:34:08 +0000 (UTC), imr1984 wrote: > Hi > > Is the debugging info produced by DMD every gonna improve? I consider not being able to view globals, members or structs not good for debugging. > > D has all these lovely new features, and even now Walter is proposing more. But frankly, who cares? As long as you cant debug D programs properly, D is pretty much (dare I say it) useless. > > When is this gonna change? It should be a priority. What am I doing wrong? I have never needed an interactive debugger with D. -- Derek Parnell Melbourne, Australia 29/05/2005 9:16:55 PM |
May 29, 2005 Re: Debugging Symbol Information | ||||
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Posted in reply to Derek Parnell | Derek Parnell wrote:
> On Sun, 29 May 2005 10:34:08 +0000 (UTC), imr1984 wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Is the debugging info produced by DMD every gonna improve? I consider not being able to view globals, members or structs not good for debugging.
>>
>> D has all these lovely new features, and even now Walter is proposing more. But frankly, who cares? As long as you cant debug D programs properly, D is pretty much (dare I say it) useless.
>>
>> When is this gonna change? It should be a priority.
>
> What am I doing wrong? I have never needed an interactive debugger with D.
>
You're just to damn structured when writing code ;)
Lars Ivar Igesund
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May 29, 2005 Re: Debugging Symbol Information | ||||
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Posted in reply to Derek Parnell | In article <15l7g6p9fwn6f.3wosvc27mgzn.dlg@40tude.net>, Derek Parnell says... > >On Sun, 29 May 2005 10:34:08 +0000 (UTC), imr1984 wrote: > >> Hi >> >> Is the debugging info produced by DMD every gonna improve? I consider not being able to view globals, members or structs not good for debugging. >> >> D has all these lovely new features, and even now Walter is proposing more. But frankly, who cares? I care. As long as you cant debug D programs properly, D is pretty >> much (dare I say it) useless. You are wrong. It is totaly useful. I am doing this app (http://www.lessequal.com/akide) and last few days I'm dealin with stuff like shell extensions (this COM is nonsense) and htmlhelp which I am doing in C++. I forgot what pain was the work with char*-s and realloc... D strings/arrays is breeze. And not only the arrays... D is The language for me and I belive many other people from this community... >> >> When is this gonna change? It should be a priority. > >What am I doing wrong? I have never needed an interactive debugger with D. > Well I needed one. It could save me a lot of time and headaches... But I'm doing fine without it... |
May 29, 2005 Re: Debugging Symbol Information | ||||
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Posted in reply to imr1984 | "imr1984" <imr1984_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:d7c5r0$2b7f$1@digitaldaemon.com... > Is the debugging info produced by DMD every gonna improve? I consider not > being > able to view globals, members or structs not good for debugging. > > D has all these lovely new features, and even now Walter is proposing > more. But > frankly, who cares? As long as you cant debug D programs properly, D is > pretty > much (dare I say it) useless. > > When is this gonna change? It should be a priority. I would love to have proper debugging info, but unless we get a proper IDE/debugger, it won't be of much use. I use VC++ to step through my D progs and look at some variables (basic types work fine). This of course can't be extended to look at some parts of D as it's hard-coded to see C++ stuff (like classes). I suppose I could use yet _another_ command-line utility (sometimes using D feels like I've stepped back in time..) like gdb, but I'm really not up to using another tool. In the meantime, I'm happy. It might take me a little longer to debug stuff, but for the most part, my code is perfect so I don't need it ;) jk. I've gotten pretty quick with printlining/logging, and very rarely do I need stepthru, and if I do, I can usually do it in VC++. |
May 29, 2005 Re: Debugging Symbol Information | ||||
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Posted in reply to imr1984 | imr1984 wrote:
> Hi
>
> Is the debugging info produced by DMD every gonna improve? I consider not being
> able to view globals, members or structs not good for debugging.
>
> D has all these lovely new features, and even now Walter is proposing more. But
> frankly, who cares? As long as you cant debug D programs properly, D is pretty
> much (dare I say it) useless.
>
> When is this gonna change? It should be a priority.
>
>
>
I suspect it will be a priority once D 1.0 is out, because it might be hard to produce correct debug info when you add/remove features from the language. In the mean time, get friendly with unit tests, asserts, contracts, and writef ;)
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May 29, 2005 Re: Debugging Symbol Information | ||||
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Posted in reply to clayasaurus | > I suspect it will be a priority once D 1.0 is out, because it might be hard to produce correct debug info when you add/remove features from the language. In the mean time, get friendly with unit tests, asserts, contracts, and writef ;) Hmm good point , but D definetly needs 100% debug info. And since D is a new language , with features found nowhere else , a debug API would be super awesome also. "clayasaurus" <clayasaurus@gmail.com> wrote in message news:d7cr8g$2rsq$1@digitaldaemon.com... > imr1984 wrote: > > Hi > > > > Is the debugging info produced by DMD every gonna improve? I consider not being > > able to view globals, members or structs not good for debugging. > > > > D has all these lovely new features, and even now Walter is proposing more. But > > frankly, who cares? As long as you cant debug D programs properly, D is pretty > > much (dare I say it) useless. > > > > When is this gonna change? It should be a priority. > > > > > > > > I suspect it will be a priority once D 1.0 is out, because it might be hard to produce correct debug info when you add/remove features from the language. In the mean time, get friendly with unit tests, asserts, contracts, and writef ;) |
May 29, 2005 Re: Debugging Symbol Information | ||||
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Posted in reply to imr1984 | >
> Is the debugging info produced by DMD every gonna improve? I consider not
> being
> able to view globals, members or structs not good for debugging.
>
> D has all these lovely new features, and even now Walter is proposing
> more. But
> frankly, who cares? As long as you cant debug D programs properly, D is
> pretty
> much (dare I say it) useless.
>
> When is this gonna change? It should be a priority.
>
I am with you,
correct debug info and IDE capable to show correctly
will attract developers and decision makers many times
more than e.g. java-to-D transformation tool.
I think that creation of IDE with interactive debugging
is a priority #1 for the community righ now.
Andrew.
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May 29, 2005 Re: Debugging Symbol Information | ||||
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Posted in reply to Andrew Fedoniouk | In article <d7d64h$522$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Andrew Fedoniouk says... > >I am with you, > >correct debug info and IDE capable to show correctly >will attract developers and decision makers many times >more than e.g. java-to-D transformation tool. I think more important question is what we want to achieve by attracting developers and decision makers? > >I think that creation of IDE with interactive debugging >is a priority #1 for the community righ now. > Do you really believe any community will ever be able for to make an IDE more attractive than microsoft's one. I think in next version it will warn you that it is best to disconnect your keyboard to save resources because their 'programming' will be drag-n-drop only where it is needed because in most cases you can just choose a template! |
May 29, 2005 Re: Debugging Symbol Information | ||||
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Posted in reply to bobef | "bobef" <bobef_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:d7d749$5u9$1@digitaldaemon.com... > In article <d7d64h$522$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Andrew Fedoniouk says... >> >>I am with you, >> >>correct debug info and IDE capable to show correctly >>will attract developers and decision makers many times >>more than e.g. java-to-D transformation tool. > > I think more important question is what we want to achieve by attracting developers and decision makers? > :) Ask Walter and Kris for what for, they think, Java-to-D is needed. >> >>I think that creation of IDE with interactive debugging >>is a priority #1 for the community righ now. >> > > Do you really believe any community will ever be able for to make an IDE > more > attractive than microsoft's one. I think in next version it will warn you > that > it is best to disconnect your keyboard to save resources because their > 'programming' will be drag-n-drop only where it is needed because in most > cases > you can just choose a template! > public community can do good IDE - Eclipse for example. But only in case of proper organization: it has to be an authority - mangement - dedicated people getting money for the job. The best IDEs though made by commercial companies: e.g. the best Java IDE - IntelliJ is a product of JetBrains (used to be Russian software company - now international) and this IDE by its feature set and ergonomics beat MS VS in many places. http://www.jetbrains.com/idea/features/ Andrew. |
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