In article <d7trdc$n51$1@digitaldaemon.com>, John Reimer says...
>
>The more I think about it, the more I think that these systems will be almost as proprietary as they were before.  They probably won't be usable for anything but Mac OS X.  But now they will have a huge technological advantage for competition... both price and performance. Being able to leverage the current intel platform technology could help Apple gain market share.  No more supply problems, that's for sure.
>

I agree that Apple will gain market share with this because price/perf. should increase substantially. It has to be a hard sell to most consumers to consider Apple with the current p/p compared to Intel-based machines. Maybe not 2-3 years ago, but since then PC prices have dropped significantly while Apple's hasn't.

The way I read the story, it seems Apple has chosen Intel (not AMD) for the platform. What is odd to me about that is that one of the advantages that Apple hardware had over x86 was the bus technology, until AMD came along with HyperTransport. Add to that AMD dual-core architecture is also supposed to be superior (in part because of HyperTransport), and AMD chips are generally cheaper for the same performance.. You have to wonder why Apple didn't go with AMD. It's a pity - they could have reduced the influence of two monopolies in one shot.

>
>The other advantage? Think of being able to run virtual PC software on the Mac OS.  Now the virtualization layer will have much less to emulate .  Performance will be almost on par for running a Windows OS within a virtual machine.  This could get interesting.
>
>As for linux and other OS's, I doubt it will take long to port them over.
>
>-JJR

Kris wrote:

>>I used to have a Lisa.
> 
> 
> Wow! I still have my old 128K Mac, upgraded to 512K plus a 10Meg drive :-)
> 
> 

Mine was gutted long ago in the days when I thought I could fix anything.

John Reimer wrote:
> The more I think about it, the more I think that these systems will be almost as proprietary as they were before.  They probably won't be usable for anything but Mac OS X.  But now they will have a huge technological advantage for competition... both price and performance. Being able to leverage the current intel platform technology could help Apple gain market share.  No more supply problems, that's for sure.
> 
> The other advantage? Think of being able to run virtual PC software on the Mac OS.  Now the virtualization layer will have much less to emulate .  Performance will be almost on par for running a Windows OS within a virtual machine.  This could get interesting.
> 
> As for linux and other OS's, I doubt it will take long to port them over.
> 
> -JJR

Don't forget the hardware virtualization that's right around the corner (vanderpool? AMD has something similar too). If OSX is released on x86, I'd bet that it'll be the first mainstream OS to run WindowsXP as a hosted 'task' :-)

Goodbye emulator ... goodbye ... hello 16GB stick of RAM <g>

And a little more proof?

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/DeveloperTools/Reference/Assembler/ASMIntroduction/chapter_1_section_1.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000851-CH211

-JJR

Kris wrote:

>>>Ah, that's what you meant.  Mac OS X Server was a totally different
>>>beast than today's Mac OS X, from what I understand.  I've followed the
>>>history of Macintosh since I was a kid.  I grew up using the Mac 128K.
>>
>>I used to have a Lisa.
> 
> Wow! I still have my old 128K Mac, upgraded to 512K plus a 10Meg drive :-)

I started on a SE, so I guess that's mean I "lose"...
Anyway, that's *another* operating system. (Mac OS)

Owning a NeXT cube would make you "win" this one ?
http://www.lowendmac.com/next/cube.html

--anders

John Reimer wrote:

> As for linux and other OS's, I doubt it will take long to port them over.

Port them, to what ? The Mac hardware ? Most drivers are closed, unfortunately. You can run Linux PPC just fine today, though...
(without the graphics card accelerated - or AirPort, sound, etc)

--anders

Anders F Björklund wrote:
> John Reimer wrote:
> 
>> As for linux and other OS's, I doubt it will take long to port them over.
> 
> 
> Port them, to what ? The Mac hardware ? Most drivers are closed, unfortunately. You can run Linux PPC just fine today, though...
> (without the graphics card accelerated - or AirPort, sound, etc)
> 
> --anders

No, to any "new" intel-based mac hardware (if it ever arrives).  It will very likely require a new port of any free OS, since I doubt these new systems would be compatible with the current intel-based systems. Granted the port would be fairly easy, I'm sure.

-JJR

John Reimer wrote:
> Anders F Björklund wrote:
> 
>> John Reimer wrote:
>>
>>> As for linux and other OS's, I doubt it will take long to port them over.
>>
>>
>>
>> Port them, to what ? The Mac hardware ? Most drivers are closed, unfortunately. You can run Linux PPC just fine today, though...
>> (without the graphics card accelerated - or AirPort, sound, etc)
>>
>> --anders
> 
> 
> No, to any "new" intel-based mac hardware (if it ever arrives).  It will very likely require a new port of any free OS, since I doubt these new systems would be compatible with the current intel-based systems. Granted the port would be fairly easy, I'm sure.
> 
> -JJR

How much different could they really be? I mean, the whole problem with PPC and Intel was 90% endianess I though. (Also someone said already)

I suppose I should never doubt Mac's devotion to creating the most incompatible computers in the world. (sorry if I am offending a mac user in denial)

-- 
Thanks,
Trevor Parscal
www.trevorparscal.com
trevorparscal@hotmail.com

John Reimer wrote:

> Woah! This news almost blew me away:

For those of you not following Steve Jobs
keynote at WWDC, it just got confirmed...

Apple *is* moving to Intel in 2007 (or so).
Mac OS X will be supporting both, at once.

--anders

On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 19:55:59 +0200, Anders F Björklund wrote:

> John Reimer wrote:
> 
>> Woah! This news almost blew me away:
> 
> For those of you not following Steve Jobs
> keynote at WWDC, it just got confirmed...
> 
> Apple *is* moving to Intel in 2007 (or so).
> Mac OS X will be supporting both, at once.

Apple moves from IBM to Intel, and Microsoft is moving from Intel to IBM
(XBox 360).

-- 
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
7/06/2005 8:14:53 AM