clayasaurus wrote:
> Walter Bright wrote:
> 
>> "Kyle Furlong" <kylefurlong@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:dfs229$1u34$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>>
>>> All that said, he *is* just one man, with the time considerations that a
>>> man has. How much better if, under the guidance of Walter and with his
>>> approval, knowledgeable and experienced members of the community were
>>> allowed to help work out bugs and push dmd towards a 1.0 that has been
>>> coming for 6 years, and has never arrived.
>>
>>
>>
>> D is quite usable as it is, right now. There's no need to wait for a 1.0. D
>> now is far better than most languages are at 1.0, 2.0, or 3.0.
>>
>>
>>
> 
> Some people are waiting for "A 1.0 release of DMD and the D spec, so we can have a long-term stable development platform. "

Hey...  that's my line!  :)

-- Chris Sauls

Kyle Furlong wrote:
> Is there even a public repository for GDC at the moment?

What do you mean? The source (and everything else GDC) is at http://home.earthlink.net/~dvdfrdmn/d/.

Do you mean a version controlled repository? Not that I know of. If it makes contributing easier, I am sure Brad would not mind setting up a subversion repository for it on dsource.org. Talk with David about it, it is his baby.

Bastiaan.

Bastiaan Veelo wrote:
> Kyle Furlong wrote:
> 
>> Is there even a public repository for GDC at the moment?
> 
> 
> What do you mean? The source (and everything else GDC) is at http://home.earthlink.net/~dvdfrdmn/d/.
> 
> Do you mean a version controlled repository? Not that I know of. If it makes contributing easier, I am sure Brad would not mind setting up a subversion repository for it on dsource.org. Talk with David about it, it is his baby.
> 
> Bastiaan.

Yes I meant version controled repository. Any serious collaborative programming project needs one.

Walter Bright wrote:
> "Kyle Furlong" <kylefurlong@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:dfs229$1u34$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> 
>>All that said, he *is* just one man, with the time considerations that a
>>man has. How much better if, under the guidance of Walter and with his
>>approval, knowledgeable and experienced members of the community were
>>allowed to help work out bugs and push dmd towards a 1.0 that has been
>>coming for 6 years, and has never arrived.
> 
> 
> D is quite usable as it is, right now. There's no need to wait for a 1.0. D
> now is far better than most languages are at 1.0, 2.0, or 3.0.
> 
> 
> 

Ant wrote:
> The main problem is that I'm desapointed with DMD state,
> I'm always designing around DMD bugs.

Ant wrote that in another thread. This is what I am talking about.

"Kyle Furlong" <kylefurlong@gmail.com> wrote in message news:dfvo0p$12fo$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> Walter Bright wrote:
>> "Kyle Furlong" <kylefurlong@gmail.com> wrote in message news:dfs229$1u34$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>>
>>>All that said, he *is* just one man, with the time considerations that a man has. How much better if, under the guidance of Walter and with his approval, knowledgeable and experienced members of the community were allowed to help work out bugs and push dmd towards a 1.0 that has been coming for 6 years, and has never arrived.
>>
>> D is quite usable as it is, right now. There's no need to wait for a 1.0.
>> D
>> now is far better than most languages are at 1.0, 2.0, or 3.0.
>>
>
> Ant wrote:
> > The main problem is that I'm desapointed with DMD state, I'm always designing around DMD bugs.
>
> Ant wrote that in another thread. This is what I am talking about.

Which bugs are causing problems? The only bugs that come to mind that have
caused me to rework code are ones about forward declarations and I haven't
hit one of those in a while. That and private access can be overly private
(eg - private inside a template or parametrized class is private to the
template not the module).
Also, not that I'm trying to be mean, but I can't find any posts to D.bugs
by Kyle Furlong. If there are bugs that are getting in your way that aren't
already known then definitely post about it. Even if it is known Walter
might not realize the frequency of the bug and so it would still be useful
to post.

Ben Hinkle wrote:
> "Kyle Furlong" <kylefurlong@gmail.com> wrote in message news:dfvo0p$12fo$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> 
>>Walter Bright wrote:
>>
>>>"Kyle Furlong" <kylefurlong@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:dfs229$1u34$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>All that said, he *is* just one man, with the time considerations that a
>>>>man has. How much better if, under the guidance of Walter and with his
>>>>approval, knowledgeable and experienced members of the community were
>>>>allowed to help work out bugs and push dmd towards a 1.0 that has been
>>>>coming for 6 years, and has never arrived.
>>>
>>>D is quite usable as it is, right now. There's no need to wait for a 1.0. D
>>>now is far better than most languages are at 1.0, 2.0, or 3.0.
>>>
>>
>>Ant wrote:
>>
>>>The main problem is that I'm desapointed with DMD state,
>>>I'm always designing around DMD bugs.
>>
>>Ant wrote that in another thread. This is what I am talking about.
> 
> 
> Which bugs are causing problems? The only bugs that come to mind that have caused me to rework code are ones about forward declarations and I haven't hit one of those in a while. That and private access can be overly private (eg - private inside a template or parametrized class is private to the template not the module).
> Also, not that I'm trying to be mean, but I can't find any posts to D.bugs by Kyle Furlong. If there are bugs that are getting in your way that aren't already known then definitely post about it. Even if it is known Walter might not realize the frequency of the bug and so it would still be useful to post. 
> 
> 

I'm not speaking as one of the frequent users of D, I am an observer of the newsgroup and I hoped to incite discussion about some of the things that I have noticed.

I guess what I am trying to say is D is capable of taking the world by storm, so why hasnt it?

"Ben Hinkle" <ben.hinkle@gmail.com> wrote in message news:dg01dd$1io1$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> Which bugs are causing problems? The only bugs that come to mind that have
> caused me to rework code are ones about forward declarations and I haven't
> hit one of those in a while. That and private access can be overly private
> (eg - private inside a template or parametrized class is private to the
> template not the module).
> Also, not that I'm trying to be mean, but I can't find any posts to D.bugs
> by Kyle Furlong. If there are bugs that are getting in your way that
aren't
> already known then definitely post about it. Even if it is known Walter might not realize the frequency of the bug and so it would still be useful to post.

It does help when one posts a bug to comment on whether it is a showstopper for their project or not.

Ben Hinkle wrote:
> "Kyle Furlong" <kylefurlong@gmail.com> wrote in message news:dfvo0p$12fo$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> 
>>Walter Bright wrote:
>>
>>>"Kyle Furlong" <kylefurlong@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:dfs229$1u34$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>All that said, he *is* just one man, with the time considerations that a
>>>>man has. How much better if, under the guidance of Walter and with his
>>>>approval, knowledgeable and experienced members of the community were
>>>>allowed to help work out bugs and push dmd towards a 1.0 that has been
>>>>coming for 6 years, and has never arrived.
>>>
>>>D is quite usable as it is, right now. There's no need to wait for a 1.0. D
>>>now is far better than most languages are at 1.0, 2.0, or 3.0.
>>>
>>
>>Ant wrote:
>>
>>>The main problem is that I'm desapointed with DMD state,
>>>I'm always designing around DMD bugs.
>>
>>Ant wrote that in another thread. This is what I am talking about.
> 
> 
> Which bugs are causing problems? The only bugs that come to mind that have caused me to rework code are ones about forward declarations and I haven't hit one of those in a while. That and private access can be overly private (eg - private inside a template or parametrized class is private to the template not the module).
> Also, not that I'm trying to be mean, but I can't find any posts to D.bugs by Kyle Furlong. If there are bugs that are getting in your way that aren't already known then definitely post about it. Even if it is known Walter might not realize the frequency of the bug and so it would still be useful to post. 
> 
> 

One example: templates in an object file that are later stored added to a library (on windows)... nasty errors unless you do a workaround (thanks to Walter for revealing that workaround; otherwise, everybody would be clueless ).  It will get people every time unless the problem is obviously documented which I don't think it is currently.  The workaround is effective but unattractive and meaningless to code readers unless documented.

While I know that this is a problem in the OMF format that's not going away anytime soon (linux elf is unaffected), it's things like this that are annoying.  I think Ant could list several "workrounds" that are necessary.  These problems aren't necessarily consistant across platforms either.

Another is non-obvious uses of extern( ) with function pointers and delegates.  Can't use the extern keyword inside function scope (so all internal functions are only D type).  You can create an anonymous function but can't declare it's calling convention which makes what I consider one of its primary advantages in windows/c callbacks untenable.

Just a couple things off the top of my head.

-JJR

If you want to write an open source compiler,nobodys stopping you; go for it. I dont see the point in trying to reinvent Walters
work when theres so much cool stuff to write in D.

Personally, Im not concerned with the compiler. I think Walter is doing
a very good job, considering. Im more concerned with the class libraries
and tools. As the tools evolve so will the compiler.

What I think we need to do is stop talking about walter and actually
_organize_ an open source community for the serious developers; develop
the systems and tools that D needs. develop a community roadmap for the
class libraries and tools. I dont expect walter to organize the disorganized and write a great compiler. Anyway, i think you get the idea. also a real forum to discuss this stuff would be nice, which is another reason we should organize outside of the digital mars newsgroup.....



Kyle Furlong wrote:
> What are the obstacles to writing an open source D complier? It seems to me that having D be a one man show is not the most efficient way of bringing D into the mainstream, seeing as there is a healthy community of programmers here who all could lend a hand fixing bugs and adding features.

Kyle Furlong wrote:
> Bastiaan Veelo wrote:
> 
>> Kyle Furlong wrote:
>>
>>> Is there even a public repository for GDC at the moment?
>>
>>
>>
>> What do you mean? The source (and everything else GDC) is at http://home.earthlink.net/~dvdfrdmn/d/.
>>
>> Do you mean a version controlled repository? Not that I know of. If it makes contributing easier, I am sure Brad would not mind setting up a subversion repository for it on dsource.org. Talk with David about it, it is his baby.
>>
>> Bastiaan.
> 
> 
> Yes I meant version controled repository. Any serious collaborative programming project needs one.

What it needs more is collaborators... My guess is that David does not see the need for a version controlled public repository without collaborators. And you are overstating the importance of such a repository. It does not take a repository to post a patch if you have one -- the Linux kernel has been developed without a repository for many years, only a news group... And a news group we have.

Bastiaan.