December 11, 2005
Manfred Nowak wrote:
> Ivan Senji wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>>I like it and i think it could be usefull, but you made a fatal
>>mistake in those posts that you didn't explain why would anyone
>>want it. This NG likes examples.
> 
> 
> I described the usefulness in four postings, starting with
> http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/26867.html

Ok, i missed that. I see you like mathematical-proof-like posts ;)

> 
> 
> [...]
> 
>>PS I really like this idea, why not revive it at least as a
>>possible 2.0 feature?
> 
> 
> This is a must for 1.0 unless D is able to detect the ambiguities reported in
> http://www.digitalmars.com/drn-bin/wwwnews?digitalmars.D.bugs/4713
> 

It would be really great. But i know how hard it is to get Walter convinced to add a feature, that is why i was talking about 2.0.
I also know how little time it would probably take Walter to implement it. :)
December 11, 2005
In article <dngddr$hqq$1@digitaldaemon.com>, John Reimer says...
>
>Tom,
>
>Your response to my response took me by surprise.
>
>Thank you for bearing with me also.  You showed much more forbearance than I expected from reading your original post.  I obviously misjudged the person to whom I was responding.

You are welcome but you were right in the most. I make often such mistakes when 'talking' too much (then I reread and it pops up the stupidity of my sayings) and that's why I prefer in the most cases to shut my mouth or better think very well what I'll say. It's sometimes hard to contain the little fascist inside me :D

>Obviously my annoyance with the whole thing wasn't
>helping me either. :-D

Yes, I can tell it happened to me the same. I wrote nonsense because of not thinking deeply my words nor the real concepts involved, and as you say, I released my "anger" after reading all that previous posts.

>Take care,

You too.

Tom
December 11, 2005
> Indeed. I'd go even farther and assert that Walter even endorsed the
> "whisper"
> syntax (back in 2003). See
> http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/18945.html

You'll remember he was experimenting with replacements for printf and that was one of his "trial balloons". He later implemented writef as the D replacement for printf. So I wouldn't exactly say overloading opCall for I/O was "endorsed" by Walter. He tried it out and rejected it.


December 11, 2005
In article <dngjt9$n7q$1@digitaldaemon.com>, John Reimer says...
>
>In article <dnghut$ljl$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Kris says...
>
>>Got to hand it to you ... if anyone ever needs to find anything at all D related, just ask JCC ;-)
>>
>>(a private jest)
>>
>>
>
>I'll say!  Justin is pratically a bloodhound!  I don't know how he does it.
>
>-JJR

Muhahahaha!

Actually, it wasn't hard at all. It was just luck. I had a vague memory that Walter had a post called "trial balloon" for another way of doing type-safe console output before he came up with writef/wrifeln (I couldn't remember for sure that it was "whisper" with opCall, but I thought it might be). I found it by googling for "trial balloon" within the archives and it turned out to be the highly-controversial "whisper" syntax. He doesn't seem to be so much against it if he's actually suggested it!

jcc7
December 11, 2005
In article <dnhl9c$2o2h$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Ben Hinkle says...
>
>> Indeed. I'd go even farther and assert that Walter even endorsed the
>> "whisper"
>> syntax (back in 2003). See
>> http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/18945.html
>
>You'll remember he was experimenting with replacements for printf and that was one of his "trial balloons". He later implemented writef as the D replacement for printf. So I wouldn't exactly say overloading opCall for I/O was "endorsed" by Walter. He tried it out and rejected it.

Well, I don't think he'd have suggested it if he thought it was an horrible idea, but I guess "endorsed" is too strong. I only have a vague memory of these discussions, but I was thinking that he dropped it because he had a lot of negative criticism. I don't recall whether the criticism were more about style or more about substance.

jcc7
December 11, 2005
"Tom" <Tom_member@pathlink.com> wrote...
> PS: I'll be a lot more careful with my opinions and with the way I express them in the future.

FWIW, both Matthew and I have lamented in the past over the "aggressiveness" often exhibited here. The kind of tone set in these "discussions" is often what drives people away from the NG. Speaking personally, I just gave up in the end and copped an attitude just as belligerent ~ sometimes more so.

That's a piss-poor situation, and it's why I and others often disappear for long stretches (for which, some may be grateful). However, I have a litmus test ~ whenever I see JJR losing any of his usual happy demeanour, I know things have gone too far! At that point, it's time to step away from the crack-pipe.

As an aside, experience has shown the smaller and more focused forums to be *far* more productive, and an entirely pleasant and jolly place to discuss D or anything else. The very same people who are at each others throats here can actually be productive together (and I've yet to see even one flame at dsource.org). At the same time, this newsgroup/asylum/circus is currently the one place to stay up-to-date. It's phsycotic, it's totally irrational, it's often painful. Yet that seems to be human nature. Daft.

I'm just content that JJR is such a level-headed individual, and that he continues to stick around.






December 12, 2005
In article <dni6b8$t7t$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Kris says...
>
>"Tom" <Tom_member@pathlink.com> wrote...
>> PS: I'll be a lot more careful with my opinions and with the way I express them in the future.
>
>FWIW, both Matthew and I have lamented in the past over the "aggressiveness" often exhibited here. The kind of tone set in these "discussions" is often what drives people away from the NG. Speaking personally, I just gave up in the end and copped an attitude just as belligerent ~ sometimes more so.
>

I've got to chuckle; AFAICT, The OP, 'MicroWizard' (aka Tamás), hasn't taken part in the thread since he started it.

I'm seeing this cartoon bubble of someone just realizing that they accidently pulled the pin on a grenade...

<g>


December 12, 2005
In article <dniv4o$2j7r$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Dave says...
>
>I'm seeing this cartoon bubble of someone just realizing that they accidently pulled the pin on a grenade...

::sigh::

I guess that would be me -- Notice I kept my head down. Next time I'll shout "incomming" instead. :(

I didn't see the huge warning sign on a particular post when I requested clarifcation about all this.

Anyway, the status quo is just fine by me (whisper syntax and all), but I'm starting to think we could use a FAQ to at least point out what's already been debated a thousand times over.

At the very least we need a 'dueling' protocol that can be handled on the wiki -- someplace to contain these "flavors" of threads.

- EricAnderton at yahoo

Dr. Nick: "'Inflammable' means 'flammable'?! Argh, what a country!"
December 12, 2005
In article <dnj0nc$2m7k$1@digitaldaemon.com>, pragma says...
>
>In article <dniv4o$2j7r$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Dave says...
>>
>>I'm seeing this cartoon bubble of someone just realizing that they accidently pulled the pin on a grenade...
>
>::sigh::
>
>I guess that would be me -- Notice I kept my head down. Next time I'll shout "incomming" instead. :(
>
>I didn't see the huge warning sign on a particular post when I requested clarifcation about all this.
>
>Anyway, the status quo is just fine by me (whisper syntax and all), but I'm starting to think we could use a FAQ to at least point out what's already been debated a thousand times over.
>
>At the very least we need a 'dueling' protocol that can be handled on the wiki -- someplace to contain these "flavors" of threads.
>
>- EricAnderton at yahoo
>
>Dr. Nick: "'Inflammable' means 'flammable'?! Argh, what a country!"


what about setting up some sort of D Language utility project wiki on dsource trac where FAQs and ideas can go?



December 12, 2005
In article <dni6b8$t7t$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Kris says...
>That's a piss-poor situation, and it's why I and others often disappear for long stretches (for which, some may be grateful). However, I have a litmus test ~ whenever I see JJR losing any of his usual happy demeanour, I know things have gone too far! At that point, it's time to step away from the crack-pipe.

That's probably a good rule of thumb. JJR has a lot more patience than I do.

>As an aside, experience has shown the smaller and more focused forums to be *far* more productive, and an entirely pleasant and jolly place to discuss D or anything else. The very same people who are at each others throats here can actually be productive together (and I've yet to see even one flame at dsource.org). At the same time, this newsgroup/asylum/circus is currently the one place to stay up-to-date. It's phsycotic, it's totally irrational, it's often painful. Yet that seems to be human nature. Daft.

The discussions at dsource.org tend to be a lot more focused on a particular project or task than they are here (at least until they go way off topic and become about philosophy books or bird graphics). And people certainly don't complain about you discussing the unDig library (if you're in the unDig forum). But I think if you're lobbying for a feature to add to D or change in D, you'd post here to have the greater chance of Walter seeing it (not that he's not welcome to read the forums at dsource.org).

>I'm just content that JJR is such a level-headed individual, and that he continues to stick around.

Me too.

jcc7