BLS wrote:

> I do not mean that you will let wxD die. I mean the wxNet project is quit
> dead. So the problem I am talking about is  the fact that wxD depends on
> wxc.

It's actually not really a problem, just means "more work for us".

The last two or three wxD versions have added features that are not available (yet?) in wx.NET, and we're moving towards wx 2.6.3 now...

The "wxc" that we use is specific to wxD now, just as our "wxd" is
a ported version of the wx.NET classes. So it's a clean fork anyway ?

It's all good.

We don't *need* the wx.NET project, even if it's sad to see it go...
(guess most people are using GTK# instead, since it's recommended ?)

Do of course need the main wxWidgets project, but that's a good thing since it is very active and since we can use the same wx libraries ?

--anders

PS.
I'm trying to fix some more of the wxD crashing bugs / memory leaks,
but we could always use some more testing and feedback, I suppose...

Tracker is at http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=133831

In article <dvjnjd$taj$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Tom says...
>
>>> Java
>>> - Sucks 'cause of its horrendous slowness
>> 
>> This hasn't been true in quite some time.
>> 
>> Check Javas position relative to C++ here: http://dada.perl.it/shootout/craps.html
>
>That's very nice, but it has been many years and still I'VE NEVER seen a quick Java app in my life (maybe two or tree very small programs).
>
Ok, this is offtopic, but one off Java "slowness" problems is that people
usually want to use all hot/popular frameworks (EJB, Hibernate, Spring, XML,
etc.) in their cool megabucks projects (just for marketing!) and use code
generated by GUI designers, all operations in one thread, ...
In such way you can broke app written in any language.

--
ub

> That's very nice, but it has been many years and still I'VE NEVER seen a
> quick Java app in my life (maybe two or tree very small programs).

Do you mean desktop apps ?  If so I agree they usually are unbearably slow -- the only exception to this seems to be SWT apps.

Server side apps is where Java shines usually .

>> Check Javas position relative to C++ here:
>> http://dada.perl.it/shootout/craps.html

That only measures CPU usage , I would argue that you _want_ a program to use as much CPU as possible.  The memory usage page http://dada.perl.it/shootout/craps_mem.html , puts Java back in its place near dead last.


Tom wrote:
> David Medlock escribió:
> 
>> Tom wrote:
>>
>>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm no expert on Java programming, but I get this question a lot: "What compelling reason does D have that would entice a Java programmer to switch to D?"
>>>>
>>>> I know several of you have come to D from Java, and are expert Java programmers, so you folks' reasons would be very valuable. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Java
>>> - Sucks 'cause of its horrendous slowness
>>
>>
>> This hasn't been true in quite some time.
>>
>> Check Javas position relative to C++ here:
>> http://dada.perl.it/shootout/craps.html
> 
> 
> That's very nice, but it has been many years and still I'VE NEVER seen a quick Java app in my life (maybe two or tree very small programs).
> 
>> I will agree/add with my list below:
>>
>> 1. No runtime to install. (80 megs?)
>> 2. JVM is a memory hogg.
>> 3. Much better low-level facilities(OpenGL, bit twiddling)

U.Baumanis escribió:
> In article <dvjnjd$taj$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Tom says...
>>>> Java
>>>> - Sucks 'cause of its horrendous slowness
>>> This hasn't been true in quite some time.
>>>
>>> Check Javas position relative to C++ here:
>>> http://dada.perl.it/shootout/craps.html
>> That's very nice, but it has been many years and still I'VE NEVER seen a quick Java app in my life (maybe two or tree very small programs).
>>
> Ok, this is offtopic, but one off Java "slowness" problems is that people
> usually want to use all hot/popular frameworks (EJB, Hibernate, Spring, XML,
> etc.) in their cool megabucks projects (just for marketing!) and use code
> generated by GUI designers, all operations in one thread, ... In such way you can broke app written in any language.

Maybe, but this is *very* common.

Tom;

Charles escribió:
>  > That's very nice, but it has been many years and still I'VE NEVER seen a
>  > quick Java app in my life (maybe two or tree very small programs).
> 
> Do you mean desktop apps ?  If so I agree they usually are unbearably slow -- the only exception to this seems to be SWT apps.
> 
> Server side apps is where Java shines usually .

You're right, desktop apps I mean.

Charles wrote:
>> That's very nice, but it has been many years and still I'VE NEVER seen a quick Java app in my life (maybe two or tree very small programs).
> 
> Do you mean desktop apps ?  If so I agree they usually are unbearably slow -- the only exception to this seems to be SWT apps.

Ahem, AFAIK Eclipse is the primary desktop app using SWT and it's damn slow on Linux (although the weakest link in the chain seems to be GTK+, not SWT, I think).

james wrote:
> Also there seems to be two major approaches to app development emerging:
> Java/c# and a virtual machine
> VS
> c/c++/D and scripting languages like ECMAScript, Python, Lua.
> 
> I think the latter is the way to go. And the fact that DMDScript(ie ECMAScript) is written in D is great.

Using VMs is not a solution, it's a terribly perverted workaround. The real problem is that current operating systems are far too monolithic and hang/corrupt the whole machine when one unfortunate process dies/does something bad. Modern micro/exokernel OS:es (see demo.tudos.org), a safe native code low/high-level hybrid-language (D, of course) and some high-level scripts on top of that is a lot more flexible and effective approach. Having a true modular kernel actually means that the VM is kernel-level stuff and it's always on. Huge improvement IMHO.

-- 
Jari-Matti

Walter Bright wrote:
> I'm no expert on Java programming, but I get this question a lot: "What compelling reason does D have that would entice a Java programmer to switch to D?"
> 
> I know several of you have come to D from Java, and are expert Java programmers, so you folks' reasons would be very valuable.
> 
> 

D:

+ templates
+ contracts
+ delegates
+ raw power
+ no VM
+ it's practical&simple
+ community <-> language developer -interaction

Java:

+ a lot of API/GUI/IDE:s
+ does not segfault
+ smaller amount of compiler bugs
+ very easy to use
- very easy to use (makes libraries too complex)


-- 
Jari-Matti

"U.Baumanis" <U.Baumanis_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:dvjhl2$fks$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> In article <dvitlk$2848$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Andrew Fedoniouk says...
>>
>>> I don't agree about GUI - Java GUI (Swing) is very strong. There is no
>>> comparable alternative in D (yet). Don't tell me about DWT. ;)
>>
>>There are no real GUI Applications using Swing either :)
>>
>>So score: 1:1.
>>
>>Your turn.
>>
>>Andrew.
>>
> Well, there are hundreds of Java/Swing applications. :)
> Take a look at http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/sightings/

I knew that you will show me this page.

You've missed capital letter A in Applications.

How to explain what I mean?

Well, the most popular Java IDEs were built on
everything but not Swing.
I think this fact can be an illustration of what I mean.

Swing is a child of academic development and is primarily
used in univercities for educational purposes.
Swing is conceptually best toolkit - classical I would say.
But only in theory, practical implementation is far from ideal - to heavy
to be used in real life.

About Java GUI practical implementation:

Here is my proof of concept:
http://www.terrainformatica.com/org/j-smile/index.htm
This is my JavaVM running typical GUI tasks.
System of classes of this micro GUI  is close to Swing
Even this small example shows that Java could run GUI
successfully but for some reasons nobody really wants Java GUI.

BTW: It would be interesting to implement JavaVM in D.

> Yes, Swing has steep learning curve, but it is well designed and very
> flexible.
> Actually it is my choice Nr.1 for GUI apps and I would like to have
> something
> similar in D standard library (?may be based on Cairo graphics?). People
> who
> thinks that Java/Swing is too slow reads Slashdot too much or probably
> tryed
> Java in last centuary. ;)
> Another think what I really miss in D is a JDBC's type interface to
> databases.
> On the other hand D is small, compact, powerful, has better interface to C
> and
> somehow gives again good feeling like in old C days. :)
>
> Absence of IDE for D is not so big problem as lack of good standard
> libraries
> (gui, db, comm, etc.) And this is one thing what keeps D off of using in
> big
> projects. You cannot fully concentrate on problem domain.

I am using VS6 for D. Not ideal but pretty sufficient.

Andrew.

"Jari-Matti Mäkelä" <jmjmak@utu.fi.invalid> wrote in message news:dvk3en$1sqc$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> + does not segfault

Debug build null reference checks.  That's all I'm saying.