Lars Ivar Igesund escribió:
> Lucas Goss wrote:
> 
> 
>> That being said, the Mono roadmap was one of the clearest development
>> paths that I've seen, listing every function/class/documentation/etc.
>> (http://mono.ximian.com/class-status/mono-HEAD-vs-fx-2/index.html) that
>> needed to be implemented and listed the status of each. Not to mention
>> the site is very clean and the documentation is very easy to read (I
>> haven't found Java or D to be as nice). I'd say Mono has a fabulous
>> roadmap that is very inspiring. I could only hope that the D community
>> could come up with something half as good.
>>
>> Lucas
> 
> It is easy to make a detailed roadmap when you just reimplement an existing
> API.
> 
> --
> Lars Ivar Igesund
> blog at http://larsivi.net
> DSource & #D: larsivi
replacement a good API is a good idea... why not.  .Net/Java infraestructures are a very good framework.. (not only an API: is the corel key of this platforms).

ElfQT wrote:
>> ..."Debugger, please."
> 
> Not even a debugger, only debugging info from the compiler.

Useless request unless specifying format I think. DWARF is
the only way to go for being able to use free/open debuggers.

> I've stated earlier how I miss good debugging support. (I don't even want to
> start on why unit testing, while it is great and powerful, isn't enough.)
> Even I've tried to support a D debugging/debugger project, until it came clear
> that the executables doesn't contain needed debug info (only source numbers and
> some basic stuff).
> And since the compiler is in Walter's hand, and backend is closed, there is no
> other way to include debug info, only if he works on it.

In DMD, not in GDC. I would guess (have not used D) that gdc produces DWARF,
I read a while ago that the D symbol name mangling caused trouble for gdb.
Don't know what the status is on that.

> I've never worked with compiler technology, and only scratched the surface with
> debugging information in debug executables, I wonder what it takes to be able to
> read/watch (all) D variables.

Producing debug info for the symbols.

> After that, to incorporate debugging into any tool/IDE seem a lesser problem to
> me.
> 
> Unfortunately, I've never heard Walter on this topic, is this task a hard one,
> or where the problem lies (I've heard codeview isn't a nice format, and the new
> MS "pdb" format is kind of MS internal), or is there a way to contribute to
> this..., is it planned after all ...
> only different deflective opinions form the D community.

pdb is not fully documented/known, and therefore useless outside MS tools.
codeview is known, but old an limited.

It may be that Walter is "saving" debugger support for a paid version of DMD.
Unless he comes out and tells otherwise, I assume at this point that if you
want debugger support in a free package, gdc is the way to go.

Roald

ElfQT wrote:
> Unfortunately, I've never heard Walter on this topic, is this task a hard one,
> or where the problem lies (I've heard codeview isn't a nice format, and the new
> MS "pdb" format is kind of MS internal), or is there a way to contribute to
> this..., is it planned after all ...
> only different deflective opinions form the D community.

The Windows dmd compiler does emit symbolic debug info in Codeview 4 format. Unfortunately, Microsoft appears to have dropped support for it in its current debuggers. So, I have included starting with 0.155 the old windbg debugger, which does support it.

On Linux, only symbols and line number info is generated, mainly because I haven't figured out the dwarf debug symbol format yet.

Lucas Goss wrote:
> That being said, the Mono roadmap was one of the clearest development paths that I've seen, listing every function/class/documentation/etc.
> (http://mono.ximian.com/class-status/mono-HEAD-vs-fx-2/index.html) that needed to be implemented and listed the status of each. Not to mention the site is very clean and the documentation is very easy to read (I haven't found Java or D to be as nice). I'd say Mono has a fabulous roadmap that is very inspiring. I could only hope that the D community could come up with something half as good.

Mono does have the advantage that they're not inventing or designing anything, they have a complete specification and complete documentation already (from Microsoft), so it's just filling in between the lines.

>> I'd say Mono has a fabulous roadmap that is very inspiring. I could only hope that the D community could come up with something half as good.

I agree: http://www.gnu-d.org
Let's get started.

Walter Bright wrote:
> ElfQT wrote:
>> Unfortunately, I've never heard Walter on this topic, is this task a hard one,
>> or where the problem lies (I've heard codeview isn't a nice format, and the new
>> MS "pdb" format is kind of MS internal), or is there a way to contribute to
>> this..., is it planned after all ...
>> only different deflective opinions form the D community.
> 
> The Windows dmd compiler does emit symbolic debug info in Codeview 4 format. Unfortunately, Microsoft appears to have dropped support for it in its current debuggers. 

The Open Watcom debugger (wd & wdw) supports CV4 NB09
(NB09 produced with cvpack). I have no idea if it will work with D.

Road

In article <e2u6bf$10o6$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Gabe McArthur says...
>
>
>>> I'd say Mono has a fabulous roadmap that is very inspiring. I could only hope that the D community could come up with something half as good.
>
>I agree: http://www.gnu-d.org
>Let's get started.
>
>

It seems like you are determined to make this happen. But to prevent this from fading away this needs leaders, someone or a few person to organize this thing (the page is a nice idea BTW) into something concrete. In order to make it happen this needs a roadmap and goals and everything. So, where are the volunteers?



Regards,
Alberto Simon

Gabe McArthur wrote:
>>> I'd say Mono has a fabulous roadmap that is very inspiring. I could only hope that the D community could come up with something half as good.
> 
> I agree: http://www.gnu-d.org
> Let's get started.

I added your site to www.digitalmars.com/d/dlinks.html. Also, could you please somewhere on the page have the phrase "D programming language", and include it on the template for all the site pages? This will make it findable via google. Thanks!

On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 05:35:26 +0000, Alberto Simon wrote:

> In article <e2u6bf$10o6$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Gabe McArthur says...
>>
>>
>>>> I'd say Mono has a fabulous roadmap that is very inspiring. I could only hope that the D community could come up with something half as good.
>>
>>I agree: http://www.gnu-d.org
>>Let's get started.
>>
>>
> 
> It seems like you are determined to make this happen. But to prevent this from fading away this needs leaders, someone or a few person to organize this thing (the page is a nice idea BTW) into something concrete. In order to make it happen this needs a roadmap and goals and everything. So, where are the volunteers?

I will suggest that we organise this in a bottom up organisation structure.


The organisation should be divided into project groups. Then volunteers should join the project groups they like to develop for.

Then each group should have a leader and a group member
should be able to challenge the group leader for the leader post.

When the leader is challenges the whole group vote for which of the two should be the next leader.

In this way the group can fast replace a inactive group leader such that the project can continue with maximal momentum.

Then in similar way should the group leaders chose a leader for the whole gnu-d project.

> The Windows dmd compiler does emit symbolic debug info in Codeview 4 format. Unfortunately, Microsoft appears to have dropped support for it in its current debuggers. So, I have included starting with 0.155 the old windbg debugger, which does support it.

Thanks for the clarification.
I will reflect on the topic with a new post soon.

ElfQT