On 2007-01-02 21:34:41 -0800, Chris Nicholson-Sauls <ibisbasenji@gmail.com> said:

> Kirk McDonald wrote:
>> Kyle Furlong wrote:
>>> Perhaps once PyD is rock solid, Kirk could take a crack at RuD? (Rudy?) (RubyD?) The problem is roughly equivalent, allowing for eccentricities in their respective C API's.
>> 
>> I've looked at doing this, actually. Two things stand in my way, both surmountable:
>> 
>> (1) I don't know Ruby or, by extension, the Ruby C API very well. The documentation for it isn't very good either. (Of course, the same could be said about parts of the Python/C API.) I am simply not as into Ruby as I am into Python.
>> 
>> (2) There are no complete D bindings for the Ruby API, and I don't really have the patience to write them. Though much of the API can be automatically bound with htod or BCD (and I have an htod version around here somewhere), portions of it consist of macros or macro functions that can't be automatically converted. Deja Augustine and David Rushby had already written the Python/C bindings before I ever started Pyd, and my interest in writing a "Rudy"-type project would be greatly improved if I didn't have to do the drudge work of writing the bindings.
>> 
> 
> Actually I think "Rudy" is a cute name for it.  Although it might lead to "Rudolph" jokes... so be it.  We'll just make its mascot a reindeer and be done with it.
> 
> In all seriousness, perhaps a project could be started to this end?  I'm sure there would be others (myself included) willing to donate a little time to writing bindings and working out how best to hook it up.  Then with your experience from working on PyD, and general Ruby users' enthusiasm, we might just cook up something tasty.  :)
> 
> -- Chris Nicholson-Sauls

Rudy is good.  I think that "Ruddy" would be a better pronunciation, though :-)

-- Jeff

All are primary depending on project:

C, C++, ObjC, PHP, EMCAScript, C#

"I also know that many of you are handy
with multiple diverse languages, I just want to know the primary one. "

I no more have a primary language than I have a primary hand tool in my toolbox, but I get the sense that the real question is something along the lines of: what language are you considering replacing with D?, or, what language are you unsatisfied with and thinking of cheating on with D?

For me, D would replace C++, which I use as "a better C". D strikes me as a much better C than C++. C++'s gotcha-oriented programming is my least favorite among the major paradigms, and I'm always looking for alternatives.

Like many people, I started substituting Java for C++ when I could get away with it. Then along came C#, which I substituted for Java when I could. With good GUI libs, other libs, and an equivalent of C#'s LINQ, I might end up with C++ -> Java -> C# -> D, but those arrows have only meant partial replacement so far. I'd be delighted if D became good enough to allow for full replacement of this chain.

With more functional paradigm support (and libs), I might even be persuaded to leave Python for D, too, since Guido says he isn't interested in adding more functional support to Python. Anders Hejlsberg (C#'s main designer) is much more interested in adding functional support than Guido, so maybe I'll end up dropping Python and expanding my use of C#. If D > max(C#, Python), D could end up taking it all. (Unless of course Paul Graham's Arc turns out to be real after all....)

Glen Perkins wrote:
> C++'s gotcha-oriented programming

Quite possibly the best description of C++ I've ever seen :).

In recent years, primarily C++.

Previous primary languages (in rough order) have included...

Various Basics
Assembler (6502, 68000, 8086)
COBOL
Borland Turbo Pascal (mainly v4)
Modula 2
C
Ada

Python has had more use than most of these 'primary' languages, but always as a secondary, occasional-use language - I've just kept on using it longer than any other language (since version 1.4, which I used back when my main language was Ada). Despite that, somehow, even though I have no problems using it, I always seem to have areas of confusion relating to its semantics.

In truth, D is still the third choice language at the moment. It has no chance of shifting Python from second place, but it probably will shift C++ from first place in time. Nothing much you can do to make the transition go faster, though - I just have this huge library of heavily used code. Converting takes time, and the interop between D and C++ necessarily has limits because of the differing semantics.

C# has been significant third-place languages for me in recent years, but D has already overtaken that.

-- 
Remove 'wants' and 'nospam' from e-mail.

In cronological order, more stars = more code:

*     Microsoft Basic on MSX 1
**   Microsoft Basic on Commodore 64
**   Asm on Commodore 64 (6510)
**   Turbo Pascal (DOS on an 80286)
*** Asm (DOS, all x86 CPUs)
*     C on PC (DOS)
*** C++ on PC (DOS,Windows)
*     D (Windows)

L.

Walter Bright wrote:
> I know you all are early adopters of D, and that's a special breed different from the vast majority of programmers. But still, it would be  useful (in writing documentation) to know what language was your primary tool before coming to D. I also know that many of you are handy with multiple diverse languages, I just want to know the primary one.

Java.

"But there had to be a better way!"

Walter Bright wrote:
> I know you all are early adopters of D, and that's a special breed different from the vast majority of programmers. But still, it would be  useful (in writing documentation) to know what language was your primary tool before coming to D. I also know that many of you are handy with multiple diverse languages, I just want to know the primary one.
> 
> Asm?
> C++?
> C?
> None (D's your first language)?
> Java?
> C#?
> Python?
> Lisp?
> Ruby?
> Delphi?
> Perl?
> Cobol? <g>

I would say C++ was my workhorse language before D, although Delphi is preferred for GUI apps.

D is just great Walter, thanks again for this.  Even if your plans of world domination don't work out I will enjoy using D.  It has its hairy edges but overall it has the right 'feel'.

-DavidM

Walter Bright wrote:
> I know you all are early adopters of D, and that's a special breed different from the vast majority of programmers. But still, it would be  useful (in writing documentation) to know what language was your primary tool before coming to D. I also know that many of you are handy with multiple diverse languages, I just want to know the primary one.
> 
> Asm?
> C++?
> C?
> None (D's your first language)?
> Java?
> C#?
> Python?
> Lisp?
> Ruby?
> Delphi?
> Perl?
> Cobol? <g>

I cut my teeth on C64 Basic*, and then graduated to Pascal, C, C++ and x86 ASM in that order.

My career, however, has taken me down a completely different path.  In no particular order:

ASP
PHP
Java
C#
VisualBasic
ColdFusion
Javascript
Python

D pretty much replaced all my other interests in terms of hobby languages starting over 2 years ago.  So I'm more fluent in D than in most other languages at this point.  Before that, I spent a lot of time hacking in PHP or C#.

If I had to pick a primary language focus, I'd have to say D is #1, with Javascript being a solid #2 as of late thanks to the current "Web 2.0" revolution going on out there.

(*I see that I'm not alone here - it's like those things were built to train new coders)

-- 
- EricAnderton at yahoo

Before D:
---------
Visual Basic 6 and below
Java

During D: *
---------
Python
Lisp
Javascript
Erlang

BA

* damn, sounds like I'm having an affair or two ;)