Is there any other way of copying structs with '=' operator, other than the default way of a bitwise copy? I quote the FAQ:

"Structs, being value objects, do get copied about. A copy is defined in D to be a bit copy. I've never been comfortable with any object in C++ that does something other than a bit copy when copied. Most of this other behavior stems from that old problem of trying to manage memory. Absent that, there doesn't seem to be a compelling rationale for having anything other than a bit copy."

The reason, I'm asking for this, is that I'm working on a GMP port. Because numbers _must_ be value types, I must use structs. But as different instances of the same number must reference another memory region of the GMP internals, I must call special copy functions, if I do "a = b;" on two gmp-structs, a refers to the same gmp-internal memory as b.

Is there any way to do this?

best regards
Matthias Walter

Matthias Walter wrote:
> Is there any other way of copying structs with '=' operator, other than the default way of a bitwise copy? I quote the FAQ:
> 
> "Structs, being value objects, do get copied about. A copy is defined in D to be a bit copy. I've never been comfortable with any object in C++ that does something other than a bit copy when copied. Most of this other behavior stems from that old problem of trying to manage memory. Absent that, there doesn't seem to be a compelling rationale for having anything other than a bit copy."
> 
> The reason, I'm asking for this, is that I'm working on a GMP port. Because numbers _must_ be value types, I must use structs. But as different instances of the same number must reference another memory region of the GMP internals, I must call special copy functions, if I do "a = b;" on two gmp-structs, a refers to the same gmp-internal memory as b.
> 
> Is there any way to do this?
> 
> best regards
> Matthias Walter

opAssign can be used to override the meaning of A=B where A and B are different types.  But by design you can't change the meaning A=B where A and B are the same type.

But you could make it work using any of the following:

A ~= B;
A.foo = B;
A = B.foo;
assign(A,B);
A.assign(B);
etc..

And I'm sure downs could suggest a few more workable syntaxes. :-)

--bb

Bill Baxter Wrote:

> Matthias Walter wrote:
> > Is there any other way of copying structs with '=' operator, other than the default way of a bitwise copy? I quote the FAQ:
> > 
> > "Structs, being value objects, do get copied about. A copy is defined in D to be a bit copy. I've never been comfortable with any object in C++ that does something other than a bit copy when copied. Most of this other behavior stems from that old problem of trying to manage memory. Absent that, there doesn't seem to be a compelling rationale for having anything other than a bit copy."
> > 
> > The reason, I'm asking for this, is that I'm working on a GMP port. Because numbers _must_ be value types, I must use structs. But as different instances of the same number must reference another memory region of the GMP internals, I must call special copy functions, if I do "a = b;" on two gmp-structs, a refers to the same gmp-internal memory as b.
> > 
> > Is there any way to do this?
> > 
> > best regards
> > Matthias Walter
> 
> opAssign can be used to override the meaning of A=B where A and B are different types.  But by design you can't change the meaning A=B where A and B are the same type.
> 
> But you could make it work using any of the following:
> 
> A ~= B;
> A.foo = B;
> A = B.foo;
> assign(A,B);
> A.assign(B);
> etc..
> 
> And I'm sure downs could suggest a few more workable syntaxes. :-)
> 
> --bb

Problem is that GMP-structs should behave like normal numbers and one also does not write:
int i;
i.value = 10;

Does this mean, that in the current situation, it is impossible to port the GMP library with structs so that

T i,j = 0;
i = j;
j++;
assert (i == 0);

works for T = int, T = long, T = float, T = gmp_struct ?

best regards
Matthias Walter

Matthias Walter wrote:
> Bill Baxter Wrote:
> 
>> Matthias Walter wrote:
>>> Is there any other way of copying structs with '=' operator, other than the default way of a bitwise copy? I quote the FAQ:
>>>
>>> "Structs, being value objects, do get copied about. A copy is defined in D to be a bit copy. I've never been comfortable with any object in C++ that does something other than a bit copy when copied. Most of this other behavior stems from that old problem of trying to manage memory. Absent that, there doesn't seem to be a compelling rationale for having anything other than a bit copy."
>>>
>>> The reason, I'm asking for this, is that I'm working on a GMP port. Because numbers _must_ be value types, I must use structs. But as different instances of the same number must reference another memory region of the GMP internals, I must call special copy functions, if I do "a = b;" on two gmp-structs, a refers to the same gmp-internal memory as b.
>>>
>>> Is there any way to do this?
>>>
>>> best regards
>>> Matthias Walter
>> opAssign can be used to override the meaning of A=B where A and B are different types.  But by design you can't change the meaning A=B where A and B are the same type.
>>
>> But you could make it work using any of the following:
>>
>> A ~= B;
>> A.foo = B;
>> A = B.foo;
>> assign(A,B);
>> A.assign(B);
>> etc..
>>
>> And I'm sure downs could suggest a few more workable syntaxes. :-)
>>
>> --bb
> 
> Problem is that GMP-structs should behave like normal numbers and one also does not write:
> int i;
> i.value = 10;
> 
> Does this mean, that in the current situation, it is impossible to port the GMP library with structs so that 
> 
> T i,j = 0;
> i = j;
> j++;
> assert (i == 0);
> 
> works for T = int, T = long, T = float, T = gmp_struct ?
> 
> best regards
> Matthias Walter

Yep.  That's what it means.  I don't know what's in gmp_struct but if it includes a pointer to something that must be allocated then D ain't gonna be able to do it.

But D2 is supposedly going to be getting features to make ref-counting smart pointer structs possible, and I'm pretty sure that means there has to be some way to trigger side effects upon assignments.

--bb

Bill Baxter Wrote:

> Matthias Walter wrote:
> > Bill Baxter Wrote:
> > 
> >> Matthias Walter wrote:
> >>> Is there any other way of copying structs with '=' operator, other than the default way of a bitwise copy? I quote the FAQ:
> >>>
> >>> "Structs, being value objects, do get copied about. A copy is defined in D to be a bit copy. I've never been comfortable with any object in C++ that does something other than a bit copy when copied. Most of this other behavior stems from that old problem of trying to manage memory. Absent that, there doesn't seem to be a compelling rationale for having anything other than a bit copy."
> >>>
> >>> The reason, I'm asking for this, is that I'm working on a GMP port. Because numbers _must_ be value types, I must use structs. But as different instances of the same number must reference another memory region of the GMP internals, I must call special copy functions, if I do "a = b;" on two gmp-structs, a refers to the same gmp-internal memory as b.
> >>>
> >>> Is there any way to do this?
> >>>
> >>> best regards
> >>> Matthias Walter
> >> opAssign can be used to override the meaning of A=B where A and B are different types.  But by design you can't change the meaning A=B where A and B are the same type.
> >>
> >> But you could make it work using any of the following:
> >>
> >> A ~= B;
> >> A.foo = B;
> >> A = B.foo;
> >> assign(A,B);
> >> A.assign(B);
> >> etc..
> >>
> >> And I'm sure downs could suggest a few more workable syntaxes. :-)
> >>
> >> --bb
> > 
> > Problem is that GMP-structs should behave like normal numbers and one also does not write:
> > int i;
> > i.value = 10;
> > 
> > Does this mean, that in the current situation, it is impossible to port the GMP library with structs so that
> > 
> > T i,j = 0;
> > i = j;
> > j++;
> > assert (i == 0);
> > 
> > works for T = int, T = long, T = float, T = gmp_struct ?
> > 
> > best regards
> > Matthias Walter
> 
> Yep.  That's what it means.  I don't know what's in gmp_struct but if it includes a pointer to something that must be allocated then D ain't gonna be able to do it.
> 
> But D2 is supposedly going to be getting features to make ref-counting smart pointer structs possible, and I'm pretty sure that means there has to be some way to trigger side effects upon assignments.
> 
> --bb

Okay, then I know on it for now. The problem is indeed, that the C-library for GMP must allocate some memory for the number, meaning you always only maintain some pointers to that memory. bitwise-copy would then lead to a double reference to the same number...

best regards
Matthias Walter

Matthias Walter wrote:
> Bill Baxter Wrote:
> 
>> Matthias Walter wrote:
>>> Bill Baxter Wrote:
>>>
>>>> Matthias Walter wrote:
>>>>> Is there any other way of copying structs with '=' operator, other than the default way of a bitwise copy? I quote the FAQ:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Structs, being value objects, do get copied about. A copy is defined in D to be a bit copy. I've never been comfortable with any object in C++ that does something other than a bit copy when copied. Most of this other behavior stems from that old problem of trying to manage memory. Absent that, there doesn't seem to be a compelling rationale for having anything other than a bit copy."
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason, I'm asking for this, is that I'm working on a GMP port. Because numbers _must_ be value types, I must use structs. But as different instances of the same number must reference another memory region of the GMP internals, I must call special copy functions, if I do "a = b;" on two gmp-structs, a refers to the same gmp-internal memory as b.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there any way to do this?
>>>>>
>>>>> best regards
>>>>> Matthias Walter
>>>> opAssign can be used to override the meaning of A=B where A and B are different types.  But by design you can't change the meaning A=B where A and B are the same type.
>>>>
>>>> But you could make it work using any of the following:
>>>>
>>>> A ~= B;
>>>> A.foo = B;
>>>> A = B.foo;
>>>> assign(A,B);
>>>> A.assign(B);
>>>> etc..
>>>>
>>>> And I'm sure downs could suggest a few more workable syntaxes. :-)
>>>>
>>>> --bb
>>> Problem is that GMP-structs should behave like normal numbers and one also does not write:
>>> int i;
>>> i.value = 10;
>>>
>>> Does this mean, that in the current situation, it is impossible to port the GMP library with structs so that 
>>>
>>> T i,j = 0;
>>> i = j;
>>> j++;
>>> assert (i == 0);
>>>
>>> works for T = int, T = long, T = float, T = gmp_struct ?
>>>
>>> best regards
>>> Matthias Walter
>> Yep.  That's what it means.  I don't know what's in gmp_struct but if it includes a pointer to something that must be allocated then D ain't gonna be able to do it.
>>
>> But D2 is supposedly going to be getting features to make ref-counting smart pointer structs possible, and I'm pretty sure that means there has to be some way to trigger side effects upon assignments.
>>
>> --bb
> 
> Okay, then I know on it for now. The problem is indeed, that the C-library for GMP must allocate some memory for the number, meaning you always only maintain some pointers to that memory. bitwise-copy would then lead to a double reference to the same number...
> 
> best regards
> Matthias Walter

You can't make natural syntax work for everything but you _can_ make unnatural syntax work for everything.  I.e. you could make it so that:

T i,j = 0;
assign(i,j);
j++;
assert(i==0);

works for all the T's you want it to.
Not quite as sweet as having it all appear to be built-in but better than a spoon in the eye.

--bb

"Bill Baxter" <dnewsgroup@billbaxter.com> wrote in message news:fp1hvu$1hom$1@digitalmars.com...

> Not quite as sweet as having it all appear to be built-in but better than a spoon in the eye.

You say that like putting spoons in your eyes is a bad thing!

Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
> "Bill Baxter" <dnewsgroup@billbaxter.com> wrote in message news:fp1hvu$1hom$1@digitalmars.com...
> 
>> Not quite as sweet as having it all appear to be built-in but better than a spoon in the eye.
> 
> You say that like putting spoons in your eyes is a bad thing! 

I'm quite fond of a spoon in the ear at least.
(As long as it's this one: http://www.spoontheband.com/)

--bb

Bill Baxter wrote:
> 
> You can't make natural syntax work for everything but you _can_ make unnatural syntax work for everything.  I.e. you could make it so that:
> 
> T i,j = 0;
> assign(i,j);
> j++;
> assert(i==0);
> 
> works for all the T's you want it to.
> Not quite as sweet as having it all appear to be built-in but better
> than a spoon in the eye.
> 
> --bb

How about keeping to D conventions, and using j = i.dup?

 --downs

downs Wrote:

> Bill Baxter wrote:
> > 
> > You can't make natural syntax work for everything but you _can_ make unnatural syntax work for everything.  I.e. you could make it so that:
> > 
> > T i,j = 0;
> > assign(i,j);
> > j++;
> > assert(i==0);
> > 
> > works for all the T's you want it to.
> > Not quite as sweet as having it all appear to be built-in but better
> > than a spoon in the eye.
> > 
> > --bb
> 
> How about keeping to D conventions, and using j = i.dup?
> 
>  --downs

Do you code all your stuff with D conventions - _also_ for numbers?

| int start = 10;
| int end = 20;
|
| for (i = start.dup; i < end; i++)
| {
|
| }

when dealing with integers, you normally don't use .dup, do you? And the sense of GMP is the easy usage of arbitrary precision numbers as they were ints, longs or floats...

best regards
Matthias Walter