http://panic.brainsware.at/~jim/blog/2008/09/30/tango-conference-2008/

Digg: http://digg.com/programming/Tango_Conference_2008
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/74hn7/panic_tango_conference_2008/

From:
> http://panic.brainsware.at/~jim/blog/2008/09/30/tango-conference-2008/

>Dr. Rafa&#322; Bocian showed us some of his students’ works written in the D & Tango course,<

What does he/she thinks about using D to teach? What kind of level/kind of courses they are?


>regarding a common runtime for Phobos and Tango,<

Can you give a little summary of this?

Bye and thank you,
bearophile

bearophile wrote:
> From:
>> http://panic.brainsware.at/~jim/blog/2008/09/30/tango-conference-2008/
> 
>> Dr. Rafa&#322; Bocian showed us some of his students’ works written in the D & Tango course,<
> 
> What does he/she thinks about using D to teach? What kind of level/kind of courses they are?

He seems to like D and its flexibility. He didn’t explicitely talk about that, though. I’m not sure how to lable the level :) I think it was some sort of course for beginners in D but with at least some background in programming. They covered IO, networking, GUI et al, using Tango.

>> regarding a common runtime for Phobos and Tango,<
> 
> Can you give a little summary of this?

Well, there’s a project on dsource (druntime: http://dsource.org/projects/druntime) which is supposed to hold that common runtime. We didn’t really come to any conclusion because it still depends on Walter in some way and he wasn’t there. But apart from that, pretty much everyone was seeing the common runtime as the way to go.

Does that answer your questions? :)

Alexander Panek:
> He seems to like D and its flexibility.

I hope to read a report or an article about the usage of D in teaching, with comparisons against Java too :-) Even if it says bad things regarding D, it can be very useful still.

Another useful thing may be a list of the bugs put by students in their D programs. This list can be used to remove some spots that are currently bug-prone of D.


> Well, there’s a project on dsource (druntime: http://dsource.org/projects/druntime)

The project says:
>A freestanding version of the Tango runtime usable by Phobos and Tango<

Now we just need 'A freestanding version of the Phobos runtime usable by Tango and Phobos' and we are even ;o)


> Does that answer your questions? :)

Thank you,
bearophile

bearophile wrote:
> Alexander Panek:
>> He seems to like D and its flexibility.
> 
> I hope to read a report or an article about the usage of D in teaching, with comparisons against Java too :-)
> Even if it says bad things regarding D, it can be very useful still.
> 
> Another useful thing may be a list of the bugs put by students in their D programs. This list can be used to remove some spots that are currently bug-prone of D.
> 

He didn't really get much into that, what he did talk a lot about was some of the parts of the D spec that students had a hard time explaining/understanding.

>> Well, there’s a project on dsource (druntime: http://dsource.org/projects/druntime)
> 
> The project says:
>> A freestanding version of the Tango runtime usable by Phobos and Tango<
> 
> Now we just need 'A freestanding version of the Phobos runtime usable by Tango and Phobos' and we are even ;o)
> 

Thing is, Tango's runtime is much more self contained, IIRC it's been proven superior several times as well (as in faster).
The main thing I got out of this was that a common interface for the D runtime was a big point. So nothing wrong with changing the Phobos runtime to implement this interface, it'd be a lot more work though for little to no gain...

As mentioned there was a compiler/runtime workshop sunday morning. I found this one quite interesting. A lot of good points about flaws in the D spec (regarding future new compilers and portability), general mistakes in the language design etc. were "presented".

I think the idea was to compile a list of the general conclusions, not sure who actually did that (if any). Though the notes should still exist. I'm sure these would spawn a very long NG thread when posted ;)

-Tomas

Tomas Lindquist Olsen wrote:
> As mentioned there was a compiler/runtime workshop sunday morning. I found this one quite interesting. A lot of good points about flaws in the D spec (regarding future new compilers and portability), general mistakes in the language design etc. were "presented".

It would be great if some of those were posted here so that Walter knows.

Andrei

Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> Tomas Lindquist Olsen wrote:
>> As mentioned there was a compiler/runtime workshop sunday morning. I found this one quite interesting. A lot of good points about flaws in the D spec (regarding future new compilers and portability), general mistakes in the language design etc. were "presented".
> 
> It would be great if some of those were posted here so that Walter knows.

I agree. I can't do anything about it otherwise.

Walter Bright wrote:
> Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>> Tomas Lindquist Olsen wrote:
>>> As mentioned there was a compiler/runtime workshop sunday morning. I found this one quite interesting. A lot of good points about flaws in the D spec (regarding future new compilers and portability), general mistakes in the language design etc. were "presented".
>>
>> It would be great if some of those were posted here so that Walter knows.
> 
> I agree. I can't do anything about it otherwise.

Some people are just assembling a list as we speak. There will be a seperate thread for that, as soon as it is finished.

Alexander Pánek wrote:
> Walter Bright wrote:
>> Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>> Tomas Lindquist Olsen wrote:
>>>> As mentioned there was a compiler/runtime workshop sunday morning. I found this one quite interesting. A lot of good points about flaws in the D spec (regarding future new compilers and portability), general mistakes in the language design etc. were "presented".
>>>
>>> It would be great if some of those were posted here so that Walter knows.
>>
>> I agree. I can't do anything about it otherwise.
> 
> Some people are just assembling a list as we speak. There will be a seperate thread for that, as soon as it is finished.

Terrific! It would actually be cool if separate threads would be started for each of these issues so as to compartmentalize the discussions.

Andrei

Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> Alexander Pánek wrote:
>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>> Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>>> Tomas Lindquist Olsen wrote:
>>>>> As mentioned there was a compiler/runtime workshop sunday morning. I found this one quite interesting. A lot of good points about flaws in the D spec (regarding future new compilers and portability), general mistakes in the language design etc. were "presented".
>>>>
>>>> It would be great if some of those were posted here so that Walter knows.
>>>
>>> I agree. I can't do anything about it otherwise.
>>
>> Some people are just assembling a list as we speak. There will be a seperate thread for that, as soon as it is finished.
> 
> Terrific! It would actually be cool if separate threads would be started for each of these issues so as to compartmentalize the discussions.

Yes, one omnibus posting will likely be a mess.