http://petermodzelewski.blogspot.com/2008/10/tango-conference-2008-minid-talk-video.html 

slides: http://team0xf.com/conference/minid.pdf
Enjoy! :)

Peter Modzelewski:
> slides: http://team0xf.com/conference/minid.pdf

Quite nice.

I see no semicolons, I presume D sources too can spare them :-)

Multivalues seems dangerous, they look like the auto-flattening things of Perl. I think I don't like them. I like true tuples plus the * (apply) syntax of Python better to do similar things.

This:
global x, y, z = freep() // they are 1, 2, 3
writeln(freep()) // writes 123
global a = [freep()] // a is [1, 2, 3]

In Python becomes about as:
x, y, z = freep() // they are 1, 2, 3
a = [freep()] // a is [(1, 2, 3)]
somefunc(*freep()) // somefunc called with 3 arguments

Bye,
bearophile

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 6:34 AM, bearophile <bearophileHUGS@lycos.com> wrote:
> Peter Modzelewski:
>> slides: http://team0xf.com/conference/minid.pdf
>
> Quite nice.
>
> I see no semicolons, I presume D sources too can spare them :-)

Not quite as easily.  D has a lot more syntax and a lot more opportunities to cause ambiguity.

> Multivalues seems dangerous, they look like the auto-flattening things of Perl. I think I don't like them. I like true tuples plus the * (apply) syntax of Python better to do similar things.

That's nice.

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 4:08 AM, Peter Modzelewski <peter.modzelewski@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://petermodzelewski.blogspot.com/2008/10/tango-conference-2008-minid-talk-video.html
> slides: http://team0xf.com/conference/minid.pdf
> Enjoy! :)
>

I suppose I should also link to the MiniD site:

http://dsource.org/projects/minid

and mention that MiniD 2 is approaching a beta release :)

The slides only scratch the surface of the language's features.  Read more here:

http://dsource.org/projects/minid/wiki/LanguageSpec2

and I've started a PIL-style walkthrough here:

http://dsource.org/projects/minid/wiki/Lang/GettingStarted

Jarrett Billingsley:
> Not quite as easily.  D has a lot more syntax and a lot more opportunities to cause ambiguity.

Do you know of a language named Scala?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scala_(programming_language)
It's a Java-derived language that seems to have optional semicolons as well, and it has a syntax that's probably about as complex as D one.

Bye,
bearophile

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 8:54 AM, bearophile <bearophileHUGS@lycos.com> wrote:
> Jarrett Billingsley:
>> Not quite as easily.  D has a lot more syntax and a lot more opportunities to cause ambiguity.
>
> Do you know of a language named Scala?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scala_(programming_language)
> It's a Java-derived language that seems to have optional semicolons as well, and it has a syntax that's probably about as complex as D one.

I'm not going to argue with you on this.  You're not going to get what you want for D, sorry.

Jarrett Billingsley schrieb:
> On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 4:08 AM, Peter Modzelewski
> <peter.modzelewski@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://petermodzelewski.blogspot.com/2008/10/tango-conference-2008-minid-talk-video.html
>> slides: http://team0xf.com/conference/minid.pdf
>> Enjoy! :)
>>
> 
> I suppose I should also link to the MiniD site:
> 
> http://dsource.org/projects/minid
> 
> and mention that MiniD 2 is approaching a beta release :)
> 
> The slides only scratch the surface of the language's features.  Read more here:
> 
> http://dsource.org/projects/minid/wiki/LanguageSpec2
> 
> and I've started a PIL-style walkthrough here:
> 
> http://dsource.org/projects/minid/wiki/Lang/GettingStarted
Hi Jarret,
I have'nt followed MiniD development for quit a while, Sorry. It seems to me that you are switching from Class instantiation to Prototype's clone() paradigmn. In case, and just in case ;), that I am right: Can you please explain: Why.

TIA, Bjoern

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 9:21 AM, BLS <nanali@nospam-wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> Jarrett Billingsley schrieb:
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 4:08 AM, Peter Modzelewski <peter.modzelewski@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://petermodzelewski.blogspot.com/2008/10/tango-conference-2008-minid-talk-video.html
>>> slides: http://team0xf.com/conference/minid.pdf
>>> Enjoy! :)
>>>
>>
>> I suppose I should also link to the MiniD site:
>>
>> http://dsource.org/projects/minid
>>
>> and mention that MiniD 2 is approaching a beta release :)
>>
>> The slides only scratch the surface of the language's features.  Read more here:
>>
>> http://dsource.org/projects/minid/wiki/LanguageSpec2
>>
>> and I've started a PIL-style walkthrough here:
>>
>> http://dsource.org/projects/minid/wiki/Lang/GettingStarted
>
> Hi Jarret,
> I have'nt followed MiniD development for quit a while, Sorry. It seems to me
> that you are switching from Class instantiation to Prototype's clone()
> paradigmn. In case, and just in case ;), that I am right: Can you please
> explain: Why.
>
> TIA, Bjoern

They're simpler to implement as there is now only one type and one set of lookup rules, and, well, it's cool.  Besides, MiniD is a dynamic language, and if I were to make classes as dynamic as they could be, you'd more or less end up with a prototype-based object system with an arbitrary bifurcation between classes and their instances.  Which is precisely what happened in the development of MD2, in fact.

Jarrett Billingsley:
> You're not going to get what you want for D, sorry.<

I've seen so many things change, who knows what the future will bring us? Don't be sad, Jarrett.

Bye and thank you,
bearophile

Jarrett Billingsley:
> They're simpler to implement as there is now only one type and one set of lookup rules, and, well, it's cool.  Besides, MiniD is a dynamic language, and if I were to make classes as dynamic as they could be, you'd more or less end up with a prototype-based object system with an arbitrary bifurcation between classes and their instances.  Which is precisely what happened in the development of MD2, in fact.

I agree they are probably simpler to implement. Regarding that bifurcation, Python has solved it introducing metaclasses, so classes are objects too, that is instances of a metaclass. This seems just to move the problem up one level, but in most cases it solves the problem. But it also introduces some complexity, and programming with metaclasses requires some skills.

Bye,
bearophile