On Wednesday, 6 March 2024 at 19:13:26 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> ...

I think you're being too harsh with Linus Torvalds, back in the day I really think he was right regarding C vs C++ battle.

A couple of years ago he even agreed with some Rust experiments in the Kernel and pointed out some problems later too.

He is a technical person, he usually point out flaws very correctly.

Matheus.

On Wed, Mar 06, 2024 at 09:16:23PM +0000, Sergey via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Wednesday, 6 March 2024 at 19:13:26 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> > languages are on their way out. It may take another 20 years, or it may take 50 years, but make no mistake, their demise will
> 
> Some CEOs expecting in 5 years nobody will need programming because of
> AI :)
> And AI will be banned to use “unsafe” code :)
[...]

What people are calling "AI" these days is nothing but a glorified interpolation algorithm, boosted by having access to an internet's load of data it can interpolate from to give it a superficial semblance of "intelligence".  The algorithm is literally unable to produce correct code besides that which has already been written (and published online) by someone else.  Ask it to write code that has an existing, correct implementation, and you have a chance of getting correct, working code. Ask it to write something that has never been written before... I'd really look into taking up life insurance before putting the resulting code in production.


T

-- 
Unix was not designed to stop people from doing stupid things, because that would also stop them from doing clever things. -- Doug Gwyn

On Wednesday, 6 March 2024 at 21:34:45 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 06, 2024 at 09:16:23PM +0000, Sergey via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 6 March 2024 at 19:13:26 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
>> > languages are on their way out. It may take another 20 years, or it may take 50 years, but make no mistake, their demise will
>> 
>> Some CEOs expecting in 5 years nobody will need programming because of
>> AI :)
>> And AI will be banned to use “unsafe” code :)
> [...]
>
> What people are calling "AI" these days is nothing but a glorified interpolation algorithm, boosted by having access to an internet's load of data it can interpolate from to give it a superficial semblance of "intelligence".  The algorithm is literally unable to produce correct code besides that which has already been written (and published online) by someone else.  Ask it to write code that has an existing, correct implementation, and you have a chance of getting correct, working code. Ask it to write something that has never been written before... I'd really look into taking up life insurance before putting the resulting code in production.
>
>
> T

Well, that's pretty much what the idea of training an AI model is. You train a model based on existing data to learn from it. AIs aren't able to come up with original ideas. However, it should be noted that AI does a "bit" better at concocting results. Just not original ideas (very same applies humans most times actually, but with self+context awareness).

Also depending on the task, the results can be better. For example it appears natural language processing has progressed better than other AI tasks/fields. For sure, there's too much hype, but that's just to bring in VC investment.

My observation.

On Thursday, 7 March 2024 at 08:12:36 UTC, aberba wrote:
> Also depending on the task, the results can be better. For example it appears natural language processing has progressed better than other AI tasks/fields.

That's only because for natural language there is better training data, because humans are good at natural language. (Still AI is not as good at it as humans, only not so bad anymore that one shruggs in disapointment).

But in programming languages humans are not as good, so the training data also is not. I have no high hopes in using such an AI.

On Wednesday, 6 March 2024 at 21:34:45 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 06, 2024 at 09:16:23PM +0000, Sergey via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 6 March 2024 at 19:13:26 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
>> > languages are on their way out. It may take another 20 years, or it may take 50 years, but make no mistake, their demise will
>> 
>> Some CEOs expecting in 5 years nobody will need programming because of
>> AI :)
>> And AI will be banned to use “unsafe” code :)
> [...]
>
> What people are calling "AI" these days is nothing but a glorified interpolation algorithm, boosted by having access to an internet's load of data it can interpolate from to give it a superficial semblance of "intelligence".  The algorithm is literally unable to produce correct code besides that which has already been written (and published online) by someone else.  Ask it to write code that has an existing, correct implementation, and you have a chance of getting correct, working code. Ask it to write something that has never been written before... I'd really look into taking up life insurance before putting the resulting code in production.
>
>
> T

In my experience, it produces better results than a lot of programmers. and does so in a seconds instead of months. and it's really not just interpolation either.
but obviously it's still far from perfect. but it's become a useful tool

On 3/6/2024 9:16 AM, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> Called it.

I announced at the Berlin DConf that C was doomed because of memory unsafety!

C could become far more memory safe it it adopted slices:

https://www.digitalmars.com/articles/C-biggest-mistake.html

On Friday, 8 March 2024 at 04:50:38 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 3/6/2024 9:16 AM, H. S. Teoh wrote:
>> Called it.
>
> I announced at the Berlin DConf that C was doomed because of memory unsafety!

C is still here, C will continue to be here until something else drastically makes it worth while to redo the gaint stack of code that is gnu and the linux kernal which dispite many many delusional proclamations, errrr no I'm not swapping to a rust os anytime in the near future.

*Why are you proud of a wrong prediction*, being remade by loud corps who will also be wrong.

https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

Python and java, and js are not exactly safe languges, there no way to inturpt the high ranking as being coherently designed around safety.

Headlines and noise that poeple reshare to feel smart but do not change thier behavior, are not reality.

On Friday, 8 March 2024 at 09:09:12 UTC, Monkyyy wrote:
> On Friday, 8 March 2024 at 04:50:38 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
>> On 3/6/2024 9:16 AM, H. S. Teoh wrote:
>>> Called it.
>>
>> I announced at the Berlin DConf that C was doomed because of memory unsafety!
>
> C is still here, C will continue to be here until something else drastically makes it worth while to redo the gaint stack of code that is gnu and the linux kernal which dispite many many delusional proclamations, errrr no I'm not swapping to a rust os anytime in the near future.
>
> *Why are you proud of a wrong prediction*, being remade by loud corps who will also be wrong.
>
> https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
>
> Python and java, and js are not exactly safe languges, there no way to inturpt the high ranking as being coherently designed around safety.
>
> Headlines and noise that poeple reshare to feel smart but do not change thier behavior, are not reality.

"The US government says it would be better for them if you ceased using C or C++ when programming tools. In a recent report, the White House Office of the National Cyber Director (ONCD) has urged developers to utilize “memory-safe programming languages,” a classification that does not include widely used languages. The recommendation is a step toward “securing the building blocks of cyberspace” and is a component of US President Biden’s cybersecurity plan."

https://readwrite.com/the-nsa-list-of-memory-safe-programming-languages-has-been-updated/

The issue at hand in safety from memory corruption, not 100% safety.

Just wait until delivering software written in C or C++ requires a biohazard symbol "handle with care" kind of regulation, and insurance companies high premiums on software developed with such languages.