hi,

A lot of informative and interesting discussions are going on here.

But after trying the latest D1 and D2 compilers, it seems like none of the nice libraries and tools of dsource.og are compilable anymore - that’s a shame.
Someday you all will have succeeded to have a super language, whose users and potential new users had to give up on it, due to the lack of libraries and tools. Please have more frequent bug fixes to the compilers and keep the libs and tools of dsource up to date.
When will the tango and phobos merge?

new2d wrote:
> hi,
> 
> A lot of informative and interesting discussions are going on here.
> 
> But after trying the latest D1 and D2 compilers, it seems like none of the nice libraries and tools of dsource.og are compilable anymore - that’s a shame. Someday you all will have succeeded to have a super language, whose users and potential new users had to give up on it, due to the lack of libraries and tools. Please have more frequent bug fixes to the compilers and keep the libs and tools of dsource up to date.
> When will the tango and phobos merge?
> 

FYI, most D people are volunteer developers.
Maybe you want to be more specific about your problems, as well?

~ Clay

new2d wrote:
> But after trying the latest D1 and D2 compilers, it seems like none of the nice libraries and tools of dsource.og are compilable anymore - that’s a shame. Someday you all will have succeeded to have a super language, whose users and potential new users had to give up on it, due to the lack of libraries and tools. Please have more frequent bug fixes to the compilers and keep the libs and tools of dsource up to date.
> When will the tango and phobos merge?

You will hear a lot of explanations about how people won't bother to update D1 stuff "because D2 is shortly out", or D2 stuff "because it's a moving target". All of which seem very legitimate to the writers.

From a new user's point (and why not old ones too, especially those outside these newsgroups), it makes no difference whether such explanations are valid or not. The situation itself is bad for D.

What should be done about it? (Instead of explaining and whining.)

Can we at least make those libraries and projects that work with the current D more prominent, more visible to the casual or new person? Or something else?

"new2d" <new2d@123.net> wrote in message news:gqb4hj$i5n$1@digitalmars.com...
> hi,
>
> A lot of informative and interesting discussions are going on here.
>
> But after trying the latest D1 and D2 compilers, it seems like none of the
> nice libraries and tools of dsource.og are compilable anymore - that’s a
> shame.
> Someday you all will have succeeded to have a super language, whose users
> and potential new users had to give up on it, due to the lack of libraries
> and tools. Please have more frequent bug fixes to the compilers and keep
> the libs and tools of dsource up to date.
> When will the tango and phobos merge?
>

First off, this belongs in "digitalmars.D", not "digitalmars.D.announce". Top level posts in here should be restricted to announcements only (hence ".announce").

As for the non-up-to-date projects in dsource, one of the main problems with that is that dsource currently does nothing to help the viewer distinguish between old abanoned projects and current ones. That does need to get fixed, and it is an issue that has been brought up before. I'm not sure why it hasn't happened yet, but my guess is that the people in charge of the site are probably just busy with other things (Hey, it happens. Like other people have said, the D community is largely volunteer work right now.)

Plus there's a bit of a chicken-and-the-egg problem. There's a lot of potential D users out there that are refusing to use D because of low tool/lib support. But *that* is part of what causes the tools/libs to not get made. The solution is for people to just jump in and help out instead of complaining about the tool/lib support from the sidelines.

"new2d" <new2d@123.net> wrote in message news:gqb4hj$i5n$1@digitalmars.com...
> When will the tango and phobos merge?
>

Sorry, I forgot to address this part. I'm not one of the main tango or phobos people, but this is how I understand it:

The "core" parts of tango and phobos have already been merged into a common "druntime", which allows both tango and phobos to be used in the same program. But for some reason "druntime" is D2-only (I *think* the reason for this is that it requires breaking changes to phobos and Walter wants to keep D1 non-breaking-changes-only from here on out, but there might be more to it than that). The problem is, tango doesn't have official support for D2 yet, and it won't do that until D2 gets further along and stabilizes a bit ("It's a moving target").

So, the roadmap as I understand it:
1. D2 stabilizes
2. Tango officially supports D2

Then D2's druntime will become useful, allowing phobos and tango to be used together.

Seen from the outside, D looks like a very fragmented project of very incomplete software. There are 2 libraries whose merging doesn’t happen, even after a big fuss of argumentations and agreements. The agreed on most important bugs are not getting fixed in favor for, - admittedly a nice, port to the apple os.
The users, who are not so much into compiler construction and the like, are left with bits and pieces, which too much to die but not enough to really live.
Looking through the discussions, everybody seems to know what is need to seriously use D in real world projects. For me its libraries, libraries .... (for DB, UI etc.). Right now there is only a meager lucky bag (except for some lonely projects).
I would suggest, that at least the libraries on dsource be kept up to date with the releases. Any new user who wants to try D, might be intrigued by the language, but will be instantly put off by the lack of libraries. For a “hello world” any basic compiler/interpreter will be enough - for sure.
I hope you people take no offense and i do not want offend anyone here. I admire your work and endurance! But please keep in mind, that this project/language/compiler should not be a therapeutic effort for a few people.
In its current state, i don’t think D will make it to any kind real projects.



Georg Wrede Wrote:

> new2d wrote:
> > But after trying the latest D1 and D2 compilers, it seems like none of the nice libraries and tools of dsource.og are compilable anymore - that’s a shame.
> > Someday you all will have succeeded to have a super language, whose users and potential new users had to give up on it, due to the lack of libraries and tools. Please have more frequent bug fixes to the compilers and keep the libs and tools of dsource up to date.
> > When will the tango and phobos merge?
> 
> You will hear a lot of explanations about how people won't bother to update D1 stuff "because D2 is shortly out", or D2 stuff "because it's a moving target". All of which seem very legitimate to the writers.
> 
>  From a new user's point (and why not old ones too, especially those
> outside these newsgroups), it makes no difference whether such
> explanations are valid or not. The situation itself is bad for D.
> 
> What should be done about it? (Instead of explaining and whining.)
> 
> Can we at least make those libraries and projects that work with the current D more prominent, more visible to the casual or new person? Or something else?

new2d wrote:
> hi,
> 
> A lot of informative and interesting discussions are going on here.
> 
> But after trying the latest D1 and D2 compilers, it seems like none of the nice libraries and tools of dsource.og are compilable anymore - that’s a shame. 

I have stuff on dsource that works with the latest d1 compiler, so you must not have tried *everything* on dsource. Unless dsource.og is not the same as dsource.org?

Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> The "core" parts of tango and phobos have already been merged into a common "druntime", which allows both tango and phobos to be used in the same program. But for some reason "druntime" is D2-only (I *think* the reason for this is that it requires breaking changes to phobos and Walter wants to keep D1 non-breaking-changes-only from here on out, but there might be more to it than that).


There is no more to it than that. There's really no point in having a "stable" D1 that constantly requires people to rewrite and adjust their code.

new2d wrote:
> The
> agreed on most important bugs are not getting fixed in favor for, -
> admittedly a nice, port to the apple os.

Since the Mac is one of the "big three" platforms, supporting the Mac is a requirement.

In my limit knowledge, D2 has invariant+pure integrated already, to support functional paradigm. Is there any 'feature', cooking in backyard, so that d2 can't be declared stable?

This is purely speculation:
1. Concurrent support?
2. Operator overhaul?
3. Add more paradigm??? :D
4. Something to assimilate Martian people? :D