Anders F Björklund Wrote:

> 
> Sure, if you have a link to the BerliOS* bug report
> or even better - patches, I'll try to include them.
> * http://developer.berlios.de/projects/codeblocks/
> 
> --anders

For whatever reason this post turned up with your name rendered correctly. My browser (Firefox) is set to UTF-8.

Steve

Steve Teale wrote:
> For whatever reason this post turned up with your name rendered correctly. My browser (Firefox) is set to UTF-8.

I find using Thunderbird* for newsgroups is much better... But I might
have a different default encoding on this computer, with the newer OS.

--anders

Steve Teale wrote:
>>> Anders, Michael, Vincento, I have made a start on the GDC-newbie page I was talking about.
>>>
>>> It's at http://www.britseyeview.com/GDC-newbie.html
>>>
>>> Please have a look and see if you think it is worth pursuing.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Steve
>> It's the "GCC D Compiler", even if it sets version(GNU)...
>> This is partly due to it not being an official GNU project.
>> The GNU Pascal Compiler, however, _is_ an offical front end.
>> Although not included in the main, but http://gnu-pascal.de
>>
>> The reason why you need to "adjust" your compiler libraries
>> is because of the version mismatch, GCC 4.4.1 vs GCC 3.4.5
>> The GDC was compiled for gcc-3.4.5-20060117-3, available from
>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/mingw/files/GCC%20Version%203/
>>
>> --anders
>>
>> BTW.
>> My name seems a bit wrong, you can use ö if it helps ?
>> (might be easier than gettting the page encoded as UTF-8...)
> 
> Oh dear, so I have to explain that to newbies! It's going to take me
> two days of research to understand what you are saying. Please bear
> with me.

OK, I'll try again:

* you have a typo on your page, should be "GDC (GCC D Compiler)"

* when installing MinGW, make sure to get GCC Version 3 as well

Slightly better ? :)


I just used the Automated MinGW Installer on Windows, was easiest:
http://mingw.org/wiki/HOWTO_Install_the_MinGW_GCC_Compiler_Suite
I also install MSYS because I prefer a real shell over a DOS prompt.
It's not really necessary, unless you want to use ./configure later.

The nicest thing about MinGW is otherwise that you don't need any
Windows in order to use it, but can build your .exe files from
your regular operating system. Haven't made any binaries since
DMD 1.00 (GDC 0.21) though, but it works well on Linux or Darwin.

--anders

Steve Teale wrote:

> Anders, Michael, could you possibly post a summary of who does what with respect to GDC.

Well. Gdc starts around 2004-5 with a first release from David Friedman. It got developed until 2007 and then it started its decadence. I've been planning to contribute for a while and when Michael said that he wanted to contribute too in this newsgroup we made a fork on bitbucket and started doing our modifications. I wrote to David that helped us in understanding how gdc works.

Actually our branch is the only active one in the development and it's open to any other people which wants to contribute. Right now 5 people have committing rights and if you wanna commit code too i'll give right to write to the repo.

> 
> There's clearly quite a bit of work going on, but it is difficult to pull together a picture of what is happening.

Now you should know.

> From what I've read, it seems that progress through the DMD versions could be speeded up by having a number of people in parallel working on the modifications that need to be made to get a version working. But this would require some measure of organization which is impossible without communication.

Yes. this is why we started creating an IRC channel on freenode and a consistent wiki page on bitbucket. I started blogging about gdc on my blog too with tutorial and demos about it.

The plan right now is quite simple, and it's written in the topic of our
channel (#d.gdc): update gdc backend to gcc 4.4 and merge newest dmd
frontend, either d1 (easier) or d2 (harder, needs a complete
reimplementation to allow druntime).
If you feel able to help us in this development just read these guidelines
http://bitbucket.org/goshawk/gdc/wiki/RepositoryGuidelines and contact me to
have write rights on the repo. Then ping us on IRC or write down proposals
in bitbucket as "issues".

:)

Hope it all helps.

-- 
Vincenzo Ampolo (goshawk)

http://goshawknest.wordpress.com

Steve Teale Wrote:

> Michael P. Wrote:
> 
> > Steve Teale Wrote:
> > 
> > > Anders, Michael, could you possibly post a summary of who does what with respect to GDC.
> > > 
> > > There's clearly quite a bit of work going on, but it is difficult to pull together a picture of what is happening.
> > > 
> > > It would be useful if contact information for the parties involved could be included, if the parties are willing.
> > > 
> > > From what I've read, it seems that progress through the DMD versions could be speeded up by having a number of people in parallel working on the modifications that need to be made to get a version working. But this would require some measure of organization which is impossible without communication.
> > > 
> > 
> > Right now, I mainly work on merging in D1 DMD front ends for GDC. I am also trying to do some others to get GDC a bit more organized, such as a folder for testing out pieces of D code to make sure GDC is working properly, and a folder that will document files specific to GDC and possibly some in the DMD front end and Phobos sources.(I don't think the documentation folder is in the hg repository yet though).
> > 
> > I have also looked at trying to get GDC to work with later GCC versions, but haven't really got anywhere with that.
> 
> Thanks Michael, that's helpful. If I put together a GDC-newbiew page, can I quote you.

Yeah, sure, go ahead.

> 
> In your view, is the bitbucket repository now the 'official' source? Also there's a guy called Arthur who works on the Ubuntu GDC package. Are you in contact with him, and do you know if he is going to upgrade to the 1.043 version.

I would probably consider the bitbucket repository to be the official sources. Any proposed changes that are said to me would only be made in the bitbucket repository.
I am not in contact with Arthur, and do not know if he is going to upgrade the Ubuntu GDC to 1.043 anytime soon.
> 
> If I build binaries of the sources periodically, can they be put in the repo. I am retired, so I have some time to do stuff and deal with questions and problems, and I'm a reasonably quick learner.

That would be fine with me.

Vincenzo Ampolo wrote:
>> Anders, Michael, could you possibly post a summary of who does what with
>> respect to GDC.
> 
> Well. Gdc starts around 2004-5 with a first release from David Friedman. It got developed until 2007 and then it started its decadence. [...]

2007 was a turbulent year for D, after the release of DMD 1.00
there was also the release of Tango and the first alphas of D2.

Maybe the rebirth of D2 (as "D") will spark some more interest.
Presumably there will be some DMD release matching the D book ?

--anders

Steve Teale wrote:

> Thanks Michael, that's helpful. If I put together a GDC-newbiew page, can I quote you.

Well, thanks for your page, but please let's concentrate all the informations about gdc in the gdc wiki in bitbucket. It's better for newbies to have a single place with all the informations they need.

Again, everyone is elegible to edit the wiki, just contact me to have the writing rights for your account.

> 
> In your view, is the bitbucket repository now the 'official' source? Also there's a guy called Arthur who works on the Ubuntu GDC package. Are you in contact with him, and do you know if he is going to upgrade to the 1.043 version.

Yes, the bitbucket repo is the only active one, i've spoken with David and he seems really busy in real life works. I'm in contact with Arthur and we collaborate for packages (he works for debian, i work for ubuntu).

> 
> If I build binaries of the sources periodically, can they be put in the repo. I am retired, so I have some time to do stuff and deal with questions and problems, and I'm a reasonably quick learner.

Nope, that's not the way people get sources in linux based operating systems. People use package managers, so let's use them!

All the packages related to D are tested in the D programming language repository before being included in the debian archive (thanks to Arthur that recently added the ldc package too!). The archive can be reached through this link: https://launchpad.net/~d-language-packagers/+archive/ppa

In this way people will get updates automatically after installing the repository.

Also Mathias Klose, from Ubuntu, contacted me for a newer package of gdc in
the ubuntu-debian repo. I told him that as soon as we are able to run gdc d1
and gdc d2 with the latest gcc frontedn (the same of the ubuntu toolchain)
we can provide a package.
Having a gdc package compiled with another version of gcc instead the one in
which is used in the toolchain can lead to very nasty problems.

Everyone who wants to collaborate please start downloading the gdc code following these instructions:

http://bitbucket.org/goshawk/gdc/wiki/Home

And then start hacking it. Please remember that compilers are the most complex piece of software that a human can do, so don't give up when you find a first problem.

Wish you the best luck.

Best Regards,

-- 
Vincenzo Ampolo (goshawk)

http://goshawknest.wordpress.com

Vincenzo Ampolo Wrote:

> Well, thanks for your page, but please let's concentrate all the informations about gdc in the gdc wiki in bitbucket. It's better for newbies to have a single place with all the informations they need.
> 
> Again, everyone is elegible to edit the wiki, just contact me to have the writing rights for your account.

My idea was to put together a 'single place' that is clear and internally consistent. Wikis where everyone is eligible usually end up being inconsistent and sometimes confusing. It's also important to remember that these days, the newbies to GDC may well be newbies to Linux also and may not be accustomed to its somewhat terse documentation style.

I'm volunteering to do the jobs that most developers find tedious, like documentation, QA, tech support, and such. God knows why - when I was a working developer I always found that stuff a complete pain in the ass.

I agree with you 100% about packaging now I know that the appropriate contacts are there, and things are happening.

Thanks
Steve

Anders F Björklund Wrote:

> >> I have been doing some GDC/GDB installers:
> >> * http://gdcwin.sourceforge.net/ (MinGW)
> >> * http://gdcgnu.sourceforge.net/ ("FSF")
> >> * http://gdcmac.sourceforge.net/ (Apple)

Anders, There's a bit of a clash between http://gdcwin.sourceforge.net/ and Ubuntu.  In the gdcgnu page gdc-4.2 is described as experimental, but in Ubuntu 9 apt-get install gdc will get you 4.2. To get 4.1 you have to be specific - apt-get install gdc-4.1.

The 4.2 version has problems as we have already noted with the nested.nested bug.

Should we be telling Ubuntu people specifically install gdc-4.1?

Steve

Steve Teale wrote:
> Anders, There's a bit of a clash between
> http://gdcwin.sourceforge.net/ and Ubuntu.  In the gdcgnu page
> gdc-4.2 is described as experimental, but in Ubuntu 9 apt-get install
> gdc will get you 4.2. To get 4.1 you have to be specific - apt-get
> install gdc-4.1.

Well, it seems that the link isn't even going anywhere anymore:
http://packages.debian.org/unstable/gdc-4.2

Possibly it should use some other words, and use the other link:
http://packages.ubuntu.com/gdc-4.2

All of my pages could do with some updating, since some things
changed since 2008. And some of the links aren't up to speed
either, http://d-programming-language.org is getting stale -
although it is not yet as badly outdated as http://opend.org/.

> The 4.2 version has problems as we have already noted with the nested.nested bug.
> 
> Should we be telling Ubuntu people specifically install gdc-4.1?

Well, either that or fix the bugs in the GCC 4.2 version... ? :-)

But the packages I made used the "FSF" GCC 4.1.2, *not* Ubuntu's.
Had some Fedora 9 packages for GCC 4.3.0, but they weren't really
working all that good as that compiler release was rather buggy.
Presumably you want to go all the way to GCC 4.4, I don't know ?

As mentioned, there's some patches for the Apple/LLVM GCC 4.2 too.

The Apple GCC (either -4.0 or -4.2) is "based" on the regular GCC,
but has some rather significant changes and patches applied to it.
The LLVM GCC is in turn based on Apple's GCC, but also compilable
in a "llvm-gcc" mode. The MinGW GCC on the other hand is standard.

So there's a lot of GCC's, the GNU package used http://gcc.gnu.org/

--anders