Hello,

 I just started using D (2.0). I have three or four questions:

 1) How to use the newsgroup link (e.g. news://news.digitalmars.com/
digitalmars.D.learn) to read the newsgroup? Is the "news://" protocol handled
by some program under Linux (Ubuntu, 64)? I write this using the HTTP interface
(e.g. http://www.digitalmars.com/pnews/indexing.php?
server=news.digitalmars.com&group=digitalmars.D) which is not very pleasant.
COuld we, at least, have an interface like the one used by archives? (e.g.
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/
Re_value_range_propagation_for_bitwise_OR_108807.html)? And a SEARCH button?

 2) What is the status of complex numbers in D2? Is stated that module
std.complex will replace the built-in types cfloat, cdouble, creal, ifloat,
idouble, and ireal. When and... how?

 2a) Why the following program has the following output?

 import std.stdio;
real x;
ireal y;
creal z;

int main(){
	x=3;
	y=5i;
	z=x+y;
	writefln("x=%f",x);
	writefln("y=%f",y);
	writefln("z=%f",z);
	return 0;
}
=================================
x=3.000000
y=5.000000
z=3.000000+5.000000i

Since y is an ireal number, I would have expected to be written as 5.000000i, not 5.000000. This is even more confussing as "%f" formatting seems to handle well creal numbers, but not ireal ones.


 3) When DMD for Linux will be 64-bit, too? (Now it works, with multilib).
However, it is a nuisance to install multilib.

 Thanks everybody.

 Eles

eles wrote:
> Hello,
> 
>  I just started using D (2.0). I have three or four questions:
> 
>  1) How to use the newsgroup link (e.g. news://news.digitalmars.com/
> digitalmars.D.learn) to read the newsgroup? Is the "news://" protocol handled
> by some program under Linux (Ubuntu, 64)? I write this using the HTTP interface
> (e.g. http://www.digitalmars.com/pnews/indexing.php?
> server=news.digitalmars.com&group=digitalmars.D) which is not very pleasant.
> COuld we, at least, have an interface like the one used by archives? (e.g.
> http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/
> Re_value_range_propagation_for_bitwise_OR_108807.html)? And a SEARCH button?

The news:// protocol should be handled by a news reader.  Whether one is started automatically depends on whether you have one installed, and whether your browser handles such links correctly.

I am writing this from Thunderbird, which has a very capable news reader built in.


>  2) What is the status of complex numbers in D2? Is stated that module
> std.complex will replace the built-in types cfloat, cdouble, creal, ifloat,
> idouble, and ireal. When and... how?

I am almost done writing a replacement for std.complex.  Some minor work remains, and then it will have to be reviewed/approved.  Assuming that goes well it shouldn't be too far away. :)


>  2a) Why the following program has the following output?
> 
>  import std.stdio;
> real x;
> ireal y;
> creal z;
> 
> int main(){
> 	x=3;
> 	y=5i;
> 	z=x+y;
> 	writefln("x=%f",x);
> 	writefln("y=%f",y);
> 	writefln("z=%f",z);
> 	return 0;
> }
> =================================
> x=3.000000
> y=5.000000
> z=3.000000+5.000000i
> 
> Since y is an ireal number, I would have expected to be written as 5.000000i,
> not 5.000000. This is even more confussing as "%f" formatting seems to handle
> well creal numbers, but not ireal ones.

The built-in complex numbers are weird in several ways.  The above will be addressed in the new std.complex.


>  3) When DMD for Linux will be 64-bit, too? (Now it works, with multilib).
> However, it is a nuisance to install multilib.

The D2 language, which has so far been the "experimental branch" of D and as such has been a rapidly moving target, is in its final stages of completion.  The specification has more or less been frozen, and currently work is being done on bringing the DMD compiler up to spec. When this is done (this summer, I believe) work is supposed to start on a 64-bit compiler.

-Lars

Lars T. Kyllingstad wrote:
> The D2 language, which has so far been the "experimental branch" of D and as such has been a rapidly moving target, is in its final stages of completion.  The specification has more or less been frozen, and currently work is being done on bringing the DMD compiler up to spec. When this is done (this summer, I believe) work is supposed to start on a 64-bit compiler.

My concern about this is more along the lines of: when will D2 versions of LDC and/or GDC be available?

To an extent I'm not sure I understand why, with two great backends available, D2 development did not switch over entirely to one or the other of these -- though I understand the fact that the DMD backend is probably the one the Digital Mars developers are most comfortable with.

On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 16:26:00 +0300, eles <eles@eles.com> wrote:

>> Hello,
>>
>> I just started using D (2.0). I have three or four questions:
>>
>> 1) How to use the newsgroup link (e.g. news://news.digitalmars.com/
>> digitalmars.D.learn) to read the newsgroup? Is the "news://" protocol
>> handled
>> by some program under Linux (Ubuntu, 64)? I write this using the HTTP
>> interface
>> (e.g. http://www.digitalmars.com/pnews/indexing.php?
>> server=news.digitalmars.com&group=digitalmars.D) which is not very
>> pleasant.
>> COuld we, at least, have an interface like the one used by archives?
>> (e.g.
>> http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/
>> Re_value_range_propagation_for_bitwise_OR_108807.html)? And a SEARCH
>> button?
>>
>> 2) What is the status of complex numbers in D2? Is stated that module
>> std.complex will replace the built-in types cfloat, cdouble, creal,
>> ifloat,
>> idouble, and ireal. When and... how?


Knode is for KDE but it is the best I have used so far. You can also try Pan for Gnome (I heard it is the best) or you can try the new Opera browser that has this feature included in the mail module (along many other features – I recommend downloading the preview deb package of Opera 10.5 from http://snapshot.opera.com/unix/snapshot-6317/ which is usable as a browser too and is as fast/faster than Chromium (it uses more memory though).

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 17:28:36 +0200, Joseph Wakeling wrote:

> Lars T. Kyllingstad wrote:
>> The D2 language, which has so far been the "experimental branch" of D and as such has been a rapidly moving target, is in its final stages of completion.  The specification has more or less been frozen, and currently work is being done on bringing the DMD compiler up to spec. When this is done (this summer, I believe) work is supposed to start on a 64-bit compiler.
> 
> My concern about this is more along the lines of: when will D2 versions of LDC and/or GDC be available?
> 
> To an extent I'm not sure I understand why, with two great backends available, D2 development did not switch over entirely to one or the other of these -- though I understand the fact that the DMD backend is probably the one the Digital Mars developers are most comfortable with.

I think many people behind these compilers lack the personal motivation
to integrate the D2 front end.
That may change, but it may take time.

Some reasons I can think of:
- it's quite some work to integrate a new front end (there are a lot of
new features in D2)
- D1 works quite well for many people and is more stable (important!)
- D2 doesn't offer much gain for many existing projects atm. (features
vs. stability and transition cost)
- not everybody likes the road the D2 design takes

anyway, gdc has D2 support already (but not up to date/DMD), see http:// bitbucket.org/goshawk/gdc/overview

Thank you for your answer. I hope to see std.complex integrated in the next release of dmd. I am mainly interested in scientific (i.e. numerical) computations, so a good numerical library (GSL, Lapack etc.) would be welcome in D.

I like the std.algorithm, though.

Eles

PS Thanks to everybody for pointing me to Thunderbird and Opera. Both are nice.

PS2 What does really means to use LLVM or GCC backends for dmd? Is a front-end somewhat like a parser (or bytecode compiler) and the back-end something like an assembler?

On 04/16/2010 03:13 PM, eles wrote:
>
> PS2 What does really means to use LLVM or GCC backends for dmd? Is a front-end
> somewhat like a parser (or bytecode compiler) and the back-end something like
> an assembler?

Pretty much.

Except in the case of D, the front end also requires a backend of sorts (for ctfe), and from what I understand, DMD's frontend and backend are kind of squooshed together. (Like certain errors don't get caught unless and until the backend's optimizer gets run)

Ellery Newcomer wrote:
> On 04/16/2010 03:13 PM, eles wrote:
>>
>> PS2 What does really means to use LLVM or GCC backends for dmd? Is a front-end
>> somewhat like a parser (or bytecode compiler) and the back-end something like
>> an assembler?

> 
> Pretty much.
> 
> Except in the case of D, the front end also requires a backend of sorts (for ctfe),

 and from what I understand, DMD's frontend and backend are
> kind of squooshed together. 

Not really, the frontend compiles everything to an intermediate form, and then the backend converts the intermediate form into native code. There's not much interaction between them. In particular, the backend is the same backend used for C++. It doesn't have anything which is D-specific.

(Like certain errors don't get caught unless
> and until the backend's optimizer gets run)
That behaviour is fairly common in C++ compilers.

Moritz Warning wrote:
> I think many people behind these compilers lack the personal motivation
> to integrate the D2 front end.
> That may change, but it may take time.

Maybe true, but I was thinking of it from a different angle -- why the main D2 development does not switch backends.  To be fair, the work involved would surely detract from the main development effort on the language and features.  I can also see the desire to have a backend that is fully under the control of the main developers.

> - not everybody likes the road the D2 design takes

What are the concerns here ... ?  I don't currently have a strong enough sense of the differences.

> anyway, gdc has D2 support already (but not up to date/DMD), see http:// bitbucket.org/goshawk/gdc/overview

I've been following that D2 work for a while now, and am looking forward to where it is going ... :-)

Best wishes,

    -- Joe

Hello Joseph,

> I can also see the desire to have a backend
> that is fully under the control of the main developers.

There is also the point that if Walter never looks at the source for another compiler, it is nearly impossible for him to be sued for stealing from them.

-- 
... <IXOYE><