On 04/30/2010 10:28 AM, FeepingCreature wrote:
> On 30.04.2010 17:22, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>> I think, given the situation, that a phone call is bound to mean
>> something.
>
> Well .. what does it mean? I mean, what do you mean it means. Not
> saying what you mean is just mean.
>
>>
>>> Now, could we all please stop with the personal attacks and
>>> demonisation of the "other side"?  This isn't a war, for Pete's
>>> sake.
>>
>> You're making the situation look symmetrical. It isn't.
>>
>
> It is, in fact, asymmetrical; but in two different directions. In my
> experience, on average, Tango has higher quality of code whereas
> Phobos has more support from Phobos developers. The quality-of-code
> metric seems to be universally acknowledged - after all, druntime
> itself is a fork of tango core. "We think you suck, so we'll base our
> new standard library on your work. " I am starting to consider that
> accusations of arrogance contain a smitten of projection, maybe.

I wasn't referring to code quality.

Andrei

Fri, 30 Apr 2010 10:22:59 -0500, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

> 
>> Now, could we all please stop with the personal attacks and demonisation of the "other side"?  This isn't a war, for Pete's sake.
> 
> You're making the situation look symmetrical. It isn't.

No, you're right. There's only one person who's insolently dismissing the quality and efforts of other's work and blatantly advertising his own GODDAMN precious work in the same post. I believe the license issues were enough to justify a reimplementation, you're doing nothing but harm by feeding the flame war.

On 04/30/2010 10:46 AM, retard wrote:
> Fri, 30 Apr 2010 10:22:59 -0500, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>
>>
>>> Now, could we all please stop with the personal attacks and
>>> demonisation of the "other side"?  This isn't a war, for Pete's sake.
>>
>> You're making the situation look symmetrical. It isn't.
>
> No, you're right. There's only one person who's insolently dismissing the
> quality and efforts of other's work and blatantly advertising his own
> GODDAMN precious work in the same post.

Who is that? (Honest question.)

> I believe the license issues were
> enough to justify a reimplementation, you're doing nothing but harm by
> feeding the flame war.

I agree.


Andrei

Daniel Keep wrote:
> I won't discuss the details, but I *have* been accused of ripping off
> someone else's code.

So have I, falsely, many times. Perhaps I am overly cautious about these issues, but I feel compelled to be.

(I've also been on the other side, my game Empire was once described as the "most ripped-off game in history" <g>, with not only people making ripoff versions, but people actually deleting my name out of the source code and putting their own name in. Having a registered copyright of the source code saved the day on that one.)

> It was particularly hurtful given that my code was
> written entirely separately without ever having even used, let alone
> seen, the other person's code.  The accusation was based, literally, on
> the name of a single function.
> 
> And yeah, it really upset me to be called, more or less, of being a
> cheat and a liar.

I totally am sympathetic to this. It is just as bad to be falsely accused as it is to have someone take what is yours.


> But I didn't copy from them, and I knew that the accusation was
> baseless.  Rather than throw away my code, I double-checked that there
> was nothing that could be reasonably seen to be copied and moved on.

One of the great things about svn is it provides a verifiable legal trail of the evolution of the source code, so when and where bits of it came from can be documented if necessary.

Ironically, making things open source seems to greatly reduce the chances of code theft!

"Andrei Alexandrescu" <SeeWebsiteForEmail@erdani.org> wrote in message news:hreuei$bka$1@digitalmars.com...
> On 04/30/2010 10:46 AM, retard wrote:
>> Fri, 30 Apr 2010 10:22:59 -0500, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> Now, could we all please stop with the personal attacks and demonisation of the "other side"?  This isn't a war, for Pete's sake.
>>>
>>> You're making the situation look symmetrical. It isn't.
>>
>> No, you're right. There's only one person who's insolently dismissing the quality and efforts of other's work and blatantly advertising his own GODDAMN precious work in the same post.
>
> Who is that? (Honest question.)
>

FWIW, I'm unclear on that too.

Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote:

> On 04/30/2010 10:46 AM, retard wrote:
> > Fri, 30 Apr 2010 10:22:59 -0500, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>> Now, could we all please stop with the personal attacks and demonisation of the "other side"?  This isn't a war, for Pete's sake.
> >>
> >> You're making the situation look symmetrical. It isn't.
> >
> > No, you're right. There's only one person who's insolently dismissing the quality and efforts of other's work and blatantly advertising his own GODDAMN precious work in the same post.
> 
> Who is that? (Honest question.)

Allow me to introduce the very modest myself. I'm N=NP?, a travelling mirror salesman, dear effendi.

This is the luckiest day in my life since I may have the honor to offer You my best goods. The mirrors I sell are of the finest quality, definitely not iterating snake oil. They help your std.algorithm become non-petty rocket science and even have practical applications like curing cancer. No need to worry about your ego, it will make it HUGE as we can all see from the picture. You also don't need to spread FUD anymore to send competitors away. They surely realize now that the lawn isn't large enough for the both of you.

FeepingCreature wrote:

 The quality-of-code metric seems to be universally acknowledged - after all, druntime itself is a fork of tango core.

"We think you suck, so we'll base our new standard library on your work. "

You seem to be unaware of the history, and this may be leading you to misunderstand the situation.

Sean Kelly wrote Ares as a replacement for Phobos. Tango began as a merger of Ares with Mango. "Tango core" is Ares. Druntime is also Ares. The primary author has never changed, and it's an unbroken continuation of development on a single code base. Ditto with tango.math, (which was written by me, originally in a project called 'mathextra').

On 04/30/2010 02:01 PM, traveling mirror salesman wrote:
> Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote:
>
>> On 04/30/2010 10:46 AM, retard wrote:
>>> Fri, 30 Apr 2010 10:22:59 -0500, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Now, could we all please stop with the personal attacks and
>>>>> demonisation of the "other side"?  This isn't a war, for Pete's sake.
>>>>
>>>> You're making the situation look symmetrical. It isn't.
>>>
>>> No, you're right. There's only one person who's insolently dismissing the
>>> quality and efforts of other's work and blatantly advertising his own
>>> GODDAMN precious work in the same post.
>>
>> Who is that? (Honest question.)
>
> Allow me to introduce the very modest myself. I'm N=NP?, a travelling mirror salesman, dear effendi.
>
> This is the luckiest day in my life since I may have the honor to offer You my best goods. The mirrors I sell are of the finest quality, definitely not iterating snake oil. They help your std.algorithm become non-petty rocket science and even have practical applications like curing cancer. No need to worry about your ego, it will make it HUGE as we can all see from the picture. You also don't need to spread FUD anymore to send competitors away. They surely realize now that the lawn isn't large enough for the both of you.

Funny :o). (Let me clarify that std.algorithm is under the Boost License lest that aspect gets forgotten in the discussion.)

Now, that is a honest question, though clearly Walter and I are prime suspects of the sniping. First, I am careful with giving credit where credit is due, so if I failed to do so, I'd definitely want to correct course. Second, I recall a similar accusation (I'm not sure whether it was coming from 'retard' or someone else) about an arrogant language designer on this newsgroup who has barely read the Wikipedia article about algebraic data types. Again it is reasonable to infer that Walter or I (though I don't consider myself a language designer) were the primary targets of that one too, but I failed to recognize my own actions - so in brief I want to make sure what the state of affairs is.


Andrei

== Quote from Don (nospam@nospam.com)'s article
> FeepingCreature wrote:
>   The quality-of-code metric seems to be universally acknowledged -
> after all, druntime itself is a fork of tango core.
> "We think you suck, so we'll base our new standard library on your work. "
> You seem to be unaware of the history, and this may be leading you to
> misunderstand the situation.
> Sean Kelly wrote Ares as a replacement for Phobos. Tango began as a
> merger of Ares with Mango. "Tango core" is Ares. Druntime is also Ares.
> The primary author has never changed, and it's an unbroken continuation
> of development on a single code base. Ditto with tango.math, (which was
> written by me, originally in a project called 'mathextra').

Thank you Sean Kelly, Don and Steve Schveiguy for leaving Tango and coming to Phobos. It means very much for everybody.

"another lurker" <lurker@lurk.urk> wrote in message news:hrfcfi$1eaq$1@digitalmars.com...
> == Quote from Don (nospam@nospam.com)'s article
>> FeepingCreature wrote:
>>   The quality-of-code metric seems to be universally acknowledged -
>> after all, druntime itself is a fork of tango core.
>> "We think you suck, so we'll base our new standard library on your work.
>> "
>> You seem to be unaware of the history, and this may be leading you to
>> misunderstand the situation.
>> Sean Kelly wrote Ares as a replacement for Phobos. Tango began as a
>> merger of Ares with Mango. "Tango core" is Ares. Druntime is also Ares.
>> The primary author has never changed, and it's an unbroken continuation
>> of development on a single code base. Ditto with tango.math, (which was
>> written by me, originally in a project called 'mathextra').
>
> Thank you Sean Kelly, Don and Steve Schveiguy for leaving Tango and coming
> to
> Phobos. It means very much for everybody.

Don just said in the message you're replying to that they didn't leave Tango.