20-Feb-2013 23:00, H. S. Teoh пишет:
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 09:48:25PM +0400, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:
> [...]
>> In brief I was half-sleeping in a train when a young guy
>> takes a seat next to me. He pulls out a laptop and powers it up.
>>
>> Idly wondering what I'll see this time around (HTML/JS? Python/Ruby?
>> MS Word, PowerPoint?) to my surprise I notice it boots Arch linux.
>>
>> Cute... and then the guy starts X11 from the console... (dubious)
>> with Xfce (+1 from me, though I'm with Cinnamon now).
>>
>> The next thing he does: fire up a terminal and Geany.
>>
>> Command line goes like:
>>
>> cd Code/D
>>
>> cd <some-project>
>>
>> git pull
>>
>> And then he's off furiously hacking on some GTK-based project written
>> in D.  (I omit the details, though the repo is public) Actually it's
>> some kind of client-server file transfer utility, alpha quality it
>> seems. I even checked the repo, seems like he's involved in some tiny
>> software startup.
>>
>> Bottom line for me this kind of thing beats TIOBE index any day of the
>> week :)
> [...]
>
> Wait, wait, so you're saying, this random guy sitting next to you is, of
> all things, coding in D, and you didn't even have a conversation with
> him?!

It felt like a dream I was afraid to break this nice illusion, only half-joking :)

Seriously, it feels like I've lost an opportunity to get acquainted with the local D resistance cell. But what's the hell, my email is there in the open and the guy seems to peruse the NG (d coder?).

-- 
Dmitry Olshansky

20-Feb-2013 23:36, Dmitry Olshansky пишет:

> But what's the hell, my email is there in
> the open and the guy seems to peruse the NG (d coder?).

Hmm... apparently was confused. Got to sleep more in trains instead of poking into somebody else laptops :)

-- 
Dmitry Olshansky

> Yes your additions is included in what I meant by "stabilize". We need to freeze the addition of new features for the "stable release of the language" (we currently do not have a stable release that is documented) and put it through the acid test of real world use so it can be polished up based on the feedback.
+1
But what about the features, that should be included, but are still missing?

> Wait, wait, so you're saying, this random guy sitting next to you is, of
> all things, coding in D, and you didn't even have a conversation with
> him?!

No time for explain, I will write it in D!!!

On Wednesday, 20 February 2013 at 19:49:51 UTC, Namespace wrote:
>> Yes your additions is included in what I meant by "stabilize". We need to freeze the addition of new features for the "stable release of the language" (we currently do not have a stable release that is documented) and put it through the acid test of real world use so it can be polished up based on the feedback.
> +1
> But what about the features, that should be included, but are still missing?

Missing plus new and improved features show up in the next stable release of the language. The problem though is that we do not have a stable release of the language, nor do we even have a beta release. What we have can be described as a perpetual experimental release of the language.

From what I can tell, we have enough already to document a stable release that will be useful in practical terms. Yes more features can and possibly should be added - but the desire to evolve and improve the language will always be there, so it never stops. We have to force a "stop" with an artificially imposed "stable" release.

--rt

21-Feb-2013 00:08, Rob T пишет:
> On Wednesday, 20 February 2013 at 19:49:51 UTC, Namespace wrote:
>>> Yes your additions is included in what I meant by "stabilize". We
>>> need to freeze the addition of new features for the "stable release
>>> of the language" (we currently do not have a stable release that is
>>> documented) and put it through the acid test of real world use so it
>>> can be polished up based on the feedback.
>> +1
>> But what about the features, that should be included, but are still
>> missing?
>
> Missing plus new and improved features show up in the next stable
> release of the language. The problem though is that we do not have a
> stable release of the language, nor do we even have a beta release.

There are betas. Just subscribe to the right mailing list.
That being said the start of new beta cycle should be listed at D.announce IMHO.


-- 
Dmitry Olshansky

20-Feb-2013 23:52, Michael пишет:
>> Wait, wait, so you're saying, this random guy sitting next to you is, of
>> all things, coding in D, and you didn't even have a conversation with
>> him?!
>
> No time for explain, I will write it in D!!!

Obviously, I'm deeply indirect. This is typically bad for performance :)

-- 
Dmitry Olshansky

Rob T:

> What we have can be described as a
> perpetual experimental release of the language.

Is it normal for a language to be in such state for so many years? Are other languages in such state?

I am not intelligent (and experienced) enough to design the currently missing/broken parts of D. Is someone able to?

And even if someone (or a group of persons) is in theory able to do it, is it possible to do it not changing most of the other parts of D?

Bye,
bearophile

On 02/20/2013 12:42 PM, bearophile wrote:
> Rob T:
>
>> and do a ton of boring stuff like stabilize D2/Phobos before moving on
>> to D3, install better processes for documentation and developing the
>> language specifications, and of course continue to improve the release
>> process (it still needs a real beta and stable release), etc.
>
> "Stabilize" is the wrong word to use. Implementing the 64 compiler is
> good, implementing shared libraries is good, porting D runtime/Phobos to
> RISC CPUs is good, replacing the GC is good, improving the floating
> point management by DMD is good, and so on and on.
>
> But in my opinion what's more needed now is instead to try to complete
> as much as possible the design and implementation of the
> missing/broken/incomplete parts of the core language (like finishing
> const/immutable design, finishing the implementation of pure,
> redesigning properties, fixing @trusted, doing what's possible with
> shared, doing what's possible to finish the inference of tags like pure
> in templated functions, finishing the design of packages, finishing the
> implementation of the module system, finishing the design of operator
> overloading, and so on. The complete list of broken/unfinished parts
> scares me).
>
> Bye,
> bearophile

Yes. Shared Libraries Please.

Thank you.

On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 12:16:08AM +0400, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:
> 20-Feb-2013 23:52, Michael пишет:
> >>Wait, wait, so you're saying, this random guy sitting next to you is, of all things, coding in D, and you didn't even have a conversation with him?!
> >
> >No time for explain, I will write it in D!!!
> 
> Obviously, I'm deeply indirect. This is typically bad for performance :)
[...]

Yeah, too many pointer lookups. :-P


T

-- 
"Holy war is an oxymoron." -- Lazarus Long