September 13, 2013
On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 00:09:35 +0200, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
> Actually, my biggest problem with linux is how terrible the operating system is compared to DOS and Windows. I'm not even kidding, the unix terminal debacle sucks (maybe good when you had various hardware, but it is weak next to what the PC hardware offers), the available system facilities suck (Win32 is plenty usable and reliably there! Even on linux, using a Windows .exe tends to work better than using a linux binary - exe's just work there thanks to wine, whereas linux binaries always have some incompatibility).
> 
> Eh I'm getting off topic.

This is a distribution problem; I've stuck with Debian or Debian-based distros over the years and never had issues like this.  I view package- management as vastly superior to the Windows solution which is to ship per-application DLLs.  I'd much rather do "sudo apt-get install <package>" and have it cheerfully inform me that it only needs to install one or two dependencies because I already have all the other shared libraries.
September 13, 2013
On Friday, 13 September 2013 at 22:23:48 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 23:30:55 +0200
> "Namespace" <rswhite4@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I'm suprised that so few use an IDE. :D
>
> I think IDE users have been avoiding D due to (perceived?) issues
> with D's IDE support. So those of us that do use D tend to be the ones
> who don't rely on IDEs. "Chicken and egg"

Next time I should ask who use which OS. ;)
September 13, 2013
On 13 September 2013 20:48, Namespace <rswhite4@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Just out of interest.
>
> I use Sublime 2, Notepad++ and as IDE currently Mono-D. But I will try this evening VisualD.

vim


-- 
Iain Buclaw

*(p < e ? p++ : p) = (c & 0x0f) + '0';
September 13, 2013
On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 06:06:50PM -0400, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> On Friday, September 13, 2013 14:58:48 H. S. Teoh wrote:
[...]
> > I use vim (bare text mode, no GUI, so no gvim for me)
> 
> I don't actually use any of the GUI controls. It's just useful to have vim in a window that I can resize (you also get better color choices than in the shell).

I don't use color (the first thing I do on first installing Linux on a new machine is to edit .bashrc and turn of color in bash prompts and ls), so it's one less reason for me to need gvim. :)

I also use ratpoison, which maximizes everything anyway, so I never need any resizing either (plus ratpoison makes the mouse almost redundant). So I guess I really don't need anything more than plain vanilla vim. :)


> > for literally *everything*. Everything from system config files to coding to LaTeX for word-processing to scripted graphics processing (thanks to imagemagick) to povray scene files, there's almost nothing in my world that can't be accomplished by vim. :)
> > 
> > Sometimes I wonder how the GUI-encumbered people get any work done at all, what with needing to constantly switch their hands between the keyboard and the rodent, wait for a 600MB application to load up 200MB of eye-candy and paint the screen with 50 toolbar controls, 45 of which that they never actually use, click through endless layers of nested menus just to perform a single operation, etc.. ;-)
> > 
> > (OK, OK, so I'm a fossilized relic from the last ice age of '75, I'll stop the GUI-bashing now. :-P You may carry on.)
> 
> LOL. Yeah, the main reason that I don't use IDEs is the fact that they're essentially a glorified version of notepad as far as editing goes. They _do_ usually have better editing capabilities then the ever-so-pathetic notepad, but they can't do much of anything in comparison to the likes of vim or emacs.

I don't even consider a notepad a real "editor". Useful for doodling random notes to yourself, I suppose, in accordance with its name, but pretty much unusable for anything beyond that.


> So, I end up using (g)vim for everything. The features that an IDE has that vim doesn't typically just aren't worth it. e.g. if I'm stuck doing Windows programming, about the most that I even do with VS is use the debugger. I even build from the command line rather than open the IDE.

We really should improve D support in gdb (or whatever other debugger people like to use on Windows). I've mainly resorted to writeln debugging, and it's really quite embarrassing. Though, I think there's an unfair stigma against it -- I found that well-placed fprintf's (in C/C++) are surprisingly effective at tracking down hard-to-find bugs in code involving fork() and dynamically-loaded .so's, that gdb (or any other debugger) would require lots of tedious setup to even begin to debug properly. In an embedded environment, where it's not so easy to substitute system libraries or install the latest debugging scaffolding, printf debugging may well be on par with "real" debugging with a debugger, methinks.


> Vim's learning curve is quite nasty, but I definitely think that it was worth it.
[...]

Yeah, I hated vi and all its ilk for the longest time. I used to rant about the counterintuitivity of modal editors all the time on online discussion boards, until one day I steeled myself to actually learn it, and now I wouldn't use anything else. I like the way Justin Whear describes it: it's not so much a set of keyboard shortcuts for common editing operations, as a *language* for describing editing operations. A language requires much more effort to learn than a set of shortcuts, but in the end, it's far more expressive and powerful.


T

-- 
Question authority. Don't ask why, just do it.
September 13, 2013
On Friday, 13 September 2013 at 22:09:36 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
> Even on linux, using a Windows .exe tends to work better than using a linux binary - exe's just work there thanks to wine, whereas linux binaries always have some incompatibility).

As others have mentioned, this is not how linux operates really. In my experience almost everyone either uses a package manager (almost everything) or builds from source (bleeding edge)

Downloading executables from peoples websites is definitely a window mindset.
September 13, 2013
On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 12:37:51AM +0200, Namespace wrote:
> On Friday, 13 September 2013 at 22:23:48 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> >On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 23:30:55 +0200
> >"Namespace" <rswhite4@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>I'm suprised that so few use an IDE. :D
> >
> >I think IDE users have been avoiding D due to (perceived?) issues with D's IDE support. So those of us that do use D tend to be the ones who don't rely on IDEs. "Chicken and egg"
> 
> Next time I should ask who use which OS. ;)

I started using Linux around 1996 or so. Never looked back since.


T

-- 
It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages. -- Henry Ford
September 13, 2013
On 13 September 2013 23:32, Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail@erdani.org> wrote:
> On 9/13/13 3:09 PM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
>>
>> Actually, my biggest problem with linux is how terrible the operating system is compared to DOS and Windows. I'm not even kidding, the unix terminal debacle sucks (maybe good when you had various hardware, but it is weak next to what the PC hardware offers), the available system facilities suck (Win32 is plenty usable and reliably there! Even on linux, using a Windows .exe tends to work better than using a linux binary - exe's just work there thanks to wine, whereas linux binaries always have some incompatibility).
>
>
> Sure... wait, what?
>
> It's like I woke up and it's backward day :o).
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backwards_(Red_Dwarf_episode)
>
>

I too am confused.  I'd say it is the complete opposite too (in my
experience :-)

-- 
Iain Buclaw

*(p < e ? p++ : p) = (c & 0x0f) + '0';
September 13, 2013
Geany mainly on Linux but also on Windows (but not much as I only fix Windows specific issues in my code on Windows and do most of my work on Linux).  I use my own PyGTK GUI wrapper for git for source management.

Peter

September 13, 2013
On 13.09.2013 21:48, Namespace wrote:
> Just out of interest.
>
> I use Sublime 2, Notepad++ and as IDE currently Mono-D. But I will try
> this evening VisualD.

Real Programmers magnetize programs directly on a HDD.
September 13, 2013
On 14 September 2013 00:39, Piotr Szturmaj <bncrbme@jadamspam.pl> wrote:
> On 13.09.2013 21:48, Namespace wrote:
>>
>> Just out of interest.
>>
>> I use Sublime 2, Notepad++ and as IDE currently Mono-D. But I will try this evening VisualD.
>
>
> Real Programmers magnetize programs directly on a HDD.

Excuse me, but /real/ programmers use Butterflies.

-- 
Iain Buclaw

*(p < e ? p++ : p) = (c & 0x0f) + '0';