On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 19:38:21 UTC, Mr. Anonymous wrote:
> On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 19:25:37 UTC, Joakim wrote:
>> I'm not sure if you were trying to make my point, but you just did.  There are only 19 results for that search string.  If UTF-8 were such a rousing success and most developers found it easy to understand, you wouldn't expect only 19 results for it and 8 against it.  The paucity of results suggests most don't know how it works or perhaps simply annoyed by it, liking the internationalization but disliking the complexity.
>
> Man, you're a bullshit machine!
What can I say?  I'm very good at interpreting bad data. ;)

On Saturday, 25 May 2013 at 03:46:23 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 5/24/2013 7:16 PM, Manu wrote:
>> So when we define operators for u × v and a · b, or maybe n²? ;)
>
> Oh, how I want to do that. But I still think the world hasn't completely caught up with Unicode yet.

Using those characters would be wonderful and while we do have unicode software support we don't really have unicode hardware support. I am still on my 102 key keyboard and I haven't really seen a good expanded character keyboard come along.

On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Joakim <joakim@airpost.net> wrote:

> On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 19:20:15 UTC, Marcin Mstowski wrote:
>
>> Character Data Representation Architecture<http://www-01.**ibm.com/software/**globalization/cdra/<http://www-01.ibm.com/software/globalization/cdra/>
>> >by
>>
>> IBM. It is what you want to do with additions and it is available
>> since
>> 1995.
>> When you come up with an inventive idea, i suggest you to first check what
>> was already done in that area and then rethink this again to check if you
>> can do this better or improve existing solution. Other approaches are
>> usually waste of time and efforts, unless you are doing this for fun or
>> you
>> can't use existing solutions due to problems with license, copyrights,
>> price, etc.
>>
> You might be right, but I gave it a quick look and can't make out what the encoding actually is.  There is an appendix that lists several possible encodings, including UTF-8!
>

Yes, because they didn't reinvent wheel from scratch and are reusing existing encodings as a base. There isn't any problem with adding another code page.


> Also, one of the first pages talks about representations of floating point and integer numbers, which are outside the purview of the text encodings we're talking about.


They are outside of scope of CDRA too. At least read picture description before making out of context assumptions.


> I cannot possibly be expected to know about every dead format out there.


Nobody expect that.


> If you can show that it is materially similar to my single-byte encoding idea, it might be worth looking into.
>

Spending ~15 min to read Introduction isn't worth your time, so why should i waste my time showing you anything ?

On 5/26/2013 1:44 PM, Hans W. Uhlig wrote:
> Using those characters would be wonderful and while we do have unicode software
> support we don't really have unicode hardware support. I am still on my 102 key
> keyboard and I haven't really seen a good expanded character keyboard come along.

I have a post-it stuck to my monitor with the numbers for various unicode characters, but I just can't see that for writing code.

On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 02:14:17PM -0700, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 5/26/2013 1:44 PM, Hans W. Uhlig wrote:
> >Using those characters would be wonderful and while we do have unicode software support we don't really have unicode hardware support. I am still on my 102 key keyboard and I haven't really seen a good expanded character keyboard come along.
> 
> I have a post-it stuck to my monitor with the numbers for various unicode characters, but I just can't see that for writing code.

I have been thinking about this idea of a "reprogrammable keyboard", in that the keys are either a fixed layout with LCD labels on each key, or perhaps the whole thing is a long touchscreen, that allows arbitrary relabelling of keys (or, in the latter case, complete dynamic reconfiguration of layout). There would be some convenient way to switch between layouts, say a scrolling sidebar or roller dial of some sort, so you could, in theory, type Unicode directly.

I haven't been able to refine this into an actual, implementable idea, though.


T

-- 
Shin: (n.) A device for finding furniture in the dark.

You mean like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard ?

On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 11:25:09PM +0200, Kiith-Sa wrote:
> You mean like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard ?

Whoa! That is exactly what I had in mind!!

Pity they don't appear to support Linux, though. :-(


T

-- 
MACINTOSH: Most Applications Crash, If Not, The Operating System Hangs

On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 21:46:38 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 11:25:09PM +0200, Kiith-Sa wrote:
>> You mean like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard
>> ?
>
> Whoa! That is exactly what I had in mind!!
>
> Pity they don't appear to support Linux, though. :-(
>
>
> T

If you want to configure your keyboard so you can type unicode in Linux you should make yourself familiar with xkb, it is not that difficult to work with, but not exactly user friendly either, super user friendly though.

On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 12:30:02AM +0200, Torje Digernes wrote:
> On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 21:46:38 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> >On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 11:25:09PM +0200, Kiith-Sa wrote:
> >>You mean like
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard
> >>?
> >
> >Whoa! That is exactly what I had in mind!!
> >
> >Pity they don't appear to support Linux, though. :-(
> >
> >
> >T
> 
> If you want to configure your keyboard so you can type unicode in Linux you should make yourself familiar with xkb, it is not that difficult to work with, but not exactly user friendly either, super user friendly though.

Oh, I know *that*. I configured my xkb setup to switch between English and Russian with the unused windows key (I used to have Greek too, but I use it rarely enough that I took it out). It's just that without the dynamic key labels, I have to touch-type, which requires learning each layout as opposed to just looking for the symbol I need on the key labels. And I have yet to figure out a sane way to support *all* of Unicode without making the result unusable -- when I had Greek in the mix, it was already getting cumbersome having to continually hit the windows key repeatedly when alternating between two of the 3 languages. That's simply not scalable to, say, 100 modes.  :-P

But maybe I'm just missing a really obvious solution. That happens a lot.  :-P


T

-- 
War doesn't prove who's right, just who's left. -- BSD Games' Fortune

On Sunday, 26 May 2013 at 21:23:44 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> I have been thinking about this idea of a "reprogrammable keyboard", in
> that the keys are either a fixed layout with LCD labels on each key, or
> perhaps the whole thing is a long touchscreen, that allows arbitrary
> relabelling of keys (or, in the latter case, complete dynamic
> reconfiguration of layout). There would be some convenient way to switch
> between layouts, say a scrolling sidebar or roller dial of some sort, so
> you could, in theory, type Unicode directly.
>
> I haven't been able to refine this into an actual, implementable idea,
> though.
>
I've given this domain a fair bit of thought, and from my perspective you want to throw hardware at a software problem.  Have you ever used a Japanese input method?  They're sort of a good exemplar here, wherein you type a sequence and then hit space to cycle through possible ways of writing it.  So "ame" can become, あめ, 雨, 飴, etc.  Right now, in addition to my learning, I also use it for things like α (アルファ) and Δ (デルタ).  It's limited, but...usable, I guess.  Sort of.

The other end of this is TeX, which was designed around the idea of composing scientific texts with a high degree of control and flexibility.  Specialty characters are inserted with backslash-escapes, like \alpha, \beta, etc.

Now combine the two:  An input method that outputs as usual, until you enter a character code which is substituted in real time to what you actually want.
Example:
"values of \beta will give rise to dom!" composes as
"values of β will give rise to dom!"

No hardware required; just a smarter IME.  Like maybe this one: http://www.andonyar.com/rec/2008-03/mathinput/ (I'm honestly not yet sure how mature or usable that one is as I'm a UIM user, but it does serve as a proof of concept).