On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 18:05:22 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>
> i will not use github under any circumstances, but this will be one
> little step along the long "consistency road". at least nobody will be
> blamed for using bugzilla according to it's disclaimer. and surely i
> will stop ranting about that, 'cause i deliberately chose GTFO instead
> of github, according to rules.

I don't understand your desire to avoid github, but what ever your reasons if you are willing to write updates for D there should be a way for you to get that into a pull request. Perhaps you could find a surrogate? That would allow you to stay github free but also allow your code to be up for inclusion.

On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 18:05:22 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> i will not use github under any circumstances

Can I ask why? Seriosly. If I may know what you care for.

Disclamer:
- I kind of like your posts and work (projects).
- Asking because I assume you are a GPL'guy (who, "unfortunately", I'm not)

Piotrek

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 19:04:36 +0000
Piotrek via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:

> On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 18:05:22 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> > i will not use github under any circumstances
> 
> Can I ask why? Seriosly. If I may know what you care for.
there are several reasons. two main are:

1. i don't like the modern attitude "githib or GTFO". it's not about collaborating anymore, it's like "hey, we built this fancy social network (and managed to turn git into centralized system by the way), so get social! yes, our bugtracker sux, our wiki sux and such, but this is nothing compared to be social!" i hate that.

2. i don't like the tone of the letter i received after RoR bug disclosure (the one where one user can impersonate another user and get acces to his repos). that was almost an order instead of an apology. too much for me. i deleted my github account and i don't want to participate in github in any way anymore. at least until i will see the big personal apology banner on the main page of github.

> - Asking because I assume you are a GPL'guy (who, "unfortunately", I'm not)
so as you can see this is not about GPL or something. this is about attitude which i don't like. maybe i'm overreacting, but i'm very stubborn person sometimes. simple registration on github gives 'em +1 user. not that they care about that one user, but *i* care about github not getting that user.

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 19:01:19 +0000
Jeremy DeHaan via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:

> I don't understand your desire to avoid github, but what ever your reasons if you are willing to write updates for D there should be a way for you to get that into a pull request. Perhaps you could find a surrogate?
it's about someone who is willing to work as a proxy. i.e. taking my code, making PR of it, then retranslate my answers to the comments and updating PR... nope, i don't want anyone to do that tedious and useless work.

the other way is to make bugzilla speak with github (i.e. teach bugzilla automatically making PRs, download comments from github and update github comments), but i believe that this is even harder, as someone has to write and debug that thing, and then keep and eye on it so it will not break. this work will not get anything of great value for D community, and there are no spare manpower to do it "just because we can".

On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 09:30:59PM +0200, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 19:04:36 +0000
> Piotrek via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 18:05:22 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> > > i will not use github under any circumstances
> > 
> > Can I ask why? Seriosly. If I may know what you care for.
> there are several reasons. two main are:
> 
> 1. i don't like the modern attitude "githib or GTFO". it's not about collaborating anymore, it's like "hey, we built this fancy social network (and managed to turn git into centralized system by the way), so get social! yes, our bugtracker sux, our wiki sux and such, but this is nothing compared to be social!" i hate that.

If you put your git repo online somewhere, I wouldn't mind pulling from it and pushing to Phobos as PRs. It's much more convenient than downloading patches off bugzilla. (Git was designed to be used this way in the first place!)


T

-- 
"Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes." -- E.W. Dijkstra

On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 19:39:08 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 19:01:19 +0000
> Jeremy DeHaan via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't understand your desire to avoid github, but what ever your reasons if you are willing to write updates for D there should be a way for you to get that into a pull request. Perhaps you could find a surrogate?
> it's about someone who is willing to work as a proxy. i.e. taking my
> code, making PR of it, then retranslate my answers to the comments and
> updating PR... nope, i don't want anyone to do that tedious and useless
> work.
>
> the other way is to make bugzilla speak with github (i.e. teach
> bugzilla automatically making PRs, download comments from github and
> update github comments), but i believe that this is even harder, as
> someone has to write and debug that thing, and then keep and eye on it
> so it will not break. this work will not get anything of great value for
> D community, and there are no spare manpower to do it "just because we
> can".

Wouldn't either having another person act as a proxy for you, or you being able to act on github through bugzilla, be functionally identical to you just having a github account...

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 11:39:40 -0800
"H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d" <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 09:30:59PM +0200, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 19:04:36 +0000
> > Piotrek via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 18:05:22 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> > > > i will not use github under any circumstances
> > > 
> > > Can I ask why? Seriosly. If I may know what you care for.
> > there are several reasons. two main are:
> > 
> > 1. i don't like the modern attitude "githib or GTFO". it's not about collaborating anymore, it's like "hey, we built this fancy social network (and managed to turn git into centralized system by the way), so get social! yes, our bugtracker sux, our wiki sux and such, but this is nothing compared to be social!" i hate that.
> 
> If you put your git repo online somewhere, I wouldn't mind pulling from it and pushing to Phobos as PRs. It's much more convenient than downloading patches off bugzilla. (Git was designed to be used this way in the first place!)

sadly, i'm maintaining my patchset in the form of .patch files. git is great for continuous integration, but i routinely build DMD with some patches disabled, and maintaining that set with git is cumbersome. that's why i chose to attach patches to bugzilla.

once i started to converting that to vibe.d site where user can mark the patches he want and get either combined .patch file or special git branch with that patches applied, but i lost interest in doing this. as we abandoned idea of using D as our main developement language, i have no motivation to learn vibe.d further, as doing web/network projects is not my area of interest.

On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 20:29:23 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>
> sadly, i'm maintaining my patchset in the form of .patch files.
> git is great for continuous integration, but i routinely build
> DMD with some patches disabled, and maintaining that set with
> git is cumbersome.  that's why i chose to attach patches to
> bugzilla.
>
I can't even figure out how you'd come to this conclusion.  Are you a unicorn? :P

More seriously: this whole tantrum is really unbecoming, and I'm sure you knew that from the outset.  Why did you feel the need to do this?

-Wyatt

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 21:08:57 +0000
Wyatt via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:

> On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 20:29:23 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> >
> > sadly, i'm maintaining my patchset in the form of .patch files. git is great for continuous integration, but i routinely build DMD with some patches disabled, and maintaining that set with git is cumbersome.  that's why i chose to attach patches to bugzilla.
> >
> I can't even figure out how you'd come to this conclusion.  Are you a unicorn? :P
it was started as "oh, i have this nice patch. and that nice patch. but damit, they aren't working together, so i'll build with this and then maybe apply that." and more patches. and then there are scripts to apply patches. and now i have more than 20 patches for DMD alone, not counting the patches for druntime and phobos. and i'm too lazy to rewrite my scripts.

i need list of patches to apply anyway, and if i need to maintain both git and list of patches, i can just use file system.

it's all just lazyness.

> More seriously: this whole tantrum is really unbecoming, and I'm sure you knew that from the outset.  Why did you feel the need to do this?
if you are asking why i'm not using vanilla DMD, the answer is easy: i want to have some features that already available but rotting in PRs. like, for example, Kenji patches for property enforcement and better array type/length deduction. i want non-utf8 strings. and alot of other things. i want to enjoy D, not to fight with it. ;-)

On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 19:31:10 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> 1. i don't like the modern attitude "githib or GTFO". it's not about collaborating anymore

But DVCS is a guarantee that actually you can say, Gitub, go away yourself (when needed).
I think Github gives D the central repository service for "free" + flexibility of DVCS.

> but *i* care about github not getting that user.

Yeah, I use similar approach for other services (which are, in my case, against the Christan morality), so I can fully understand your reasoning. However I still don't understand what's wrong with "social" side of Github. To me it's very optional.

Anyway, I hope you can find some good solution for this. For now we don't have official process to transfer Bugzilla patches to Github and I agree there is a place for improvement in Bugzilla instructions to state it explicitly.

If others are not against it, you can notify about patch availability in the announcement forum with short information that you can't go to the Github service for personal believes.

Piotrek