On 2-9-2013 22:34, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 9/2/2013 7:15 AM, Manu wrote:
>> On 2 September 2013 23:50, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich@gmail.com
>> <mailto:andrej.mitrovich@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     On 9/2/13, Manu <turkeyman@gmail.com <mailto:turkeyman@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>      > But I still barely see this as an inconvenience when compared to not being
>>      > able to read a class definition.
>>
>>     How about not being able to read the include paths in VS? I'm talking
>>     about this:
>>
>>     http://i.stack.imgur.com/0cTZG.png
>>
>>     You can view 2 lines at a time. After almost 20 years they still
>>     haven't fixed this. Where is their core dev team that should make the
>>     IDE experience great?
>>
>>
>> Classic.
>
> It is classic. Scott Meyers did a presentation on that, calling it the "keyhole" interface, because it shows the
>  view as if you looked at the data through a keyhole.

:)

It's like the environment variables. You have to copy the path to the clipboard
and then to a plain text editor to have a proper look at it.

On 9/2/13, Jos van Uden <usenet@fwend.com> wrote:
> It's like the environment variables. You have to copy the path to the
> clipboard
> and then to a plain text editor to have a proper look at it.

It's why I use: http://www.rapidee.com/en/screenshots

It will even flag non-existing flags in red.

On 9/3/13, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich@gmail.com> wrote:
> It will even flag non-existing flags in red.

Non-existing *paths*.

On 3-9-2013 0:09, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> On 9/2/13, Jos van Uden <usenet@fwend.com> wrote:
>> It's like the environment variables. You have to copy the path to the
>> clipboard
>> and then to a plain text editor to have a proper look at it.
>
> It's why I use: http://www.rapidee.com/en/screenshots

Brilliant!

I gave it a special place on my taskbar.

On Mon, Sep 02, 2013 at 10:22:00PM +0100, Iain Buclaw wrote:
> On 2 September 2013 11:01, Robert Schadek <realburner@gmx.de> wrote:
> > On 09/02/2013 11:55 AM, deadalnix wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't think that githubing everything is a wise move.
> > ok, why do you think that?
> 
> 1. Hosting the source for the pages on github is going just fine. 2. Github's bug tracker is too simplistic, and really is a downgrade from bugzilla. eg: How do you bring up a graph of all new bugs, regressions and closed bugs between 28th May 2013 and today using github?
[...]

I would hate to lose my preset bug queries. I have quite a few of those, carefully honed to specific areas of interest, e.g., all AA-related bugs, all cartesianProduct bugs, all bugs within the last 6 months, all bugs between 1-10 years old, all TDPL-related bugs, etc..


T

-- 
"The number you have dialed is imaginary. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again."

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 13:25:49 -0700
Walter Bright <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote:

> On 9/2/2013 8:06 AM, deadalnix wrote:
> > For real. Just imagine that most countries are as bad as Australia, but not English speaking, and you get the idea. I experienced France and Denmark, and both are worst (Netherland seems better).
> 
> Well, here we don't get Danish TV shows, either, in any manner.
> 
> And I find it baffling as to why. They're just leaving easy money on the table by not doing it. Ditto for the TV shows from every other country. Wouldn't it be great if in Seattle you could tune into the Moscow Evening News, or the Rwanda TV station? Why the heck not?
> 
> Recently, PBS started a Roku channel where they show PBS shows for free. I eagerly signed up for it, and was very disappointed that there's only a handful of shows on it. Even worse, when they add a new show, they expire an older one.
> 
> Fer gawd's sake, why not put their entire freakin' back catalog on it?
> 
> For example, there's a "sampling" of a few of Julia Childs' shows from the 60's. Why not put them all on?

Yea. Shortly before we ditched cable, our provider had a two-month
promotion where we got NHK <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHK> without
having to upgrade to the super-duper-ultra-$$$-deluxe tier (or whatever
TWC's marketing dept called it). I could barely understand a word, but I
loved it, easily my favorite station (American network TV is mostly
just unwatchable shit - all manic directing and brooding melodramas). I
miss Somewhere Street and Hirubura. Another NHK show (some talk show, I
forget the name) is how I found out about Keiko Matsui - one of the
best smooth jazz musicians out there IMO. About the main consolation
for no longer having NHK now is that I'm far more productive without
it ;)

On Monday, 2 September 2013 at 20:28:28 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 9/2/2013 11:22 AM, Brad Anderson wrote:
>> On Monday, 2 September 2013 at 05:41:50 UTC, Manu wrote:
>>> Would you believe that you can't watch Game of Thrones in Australia unless
>>> you pay at least $80/month for a foxtel (cable tv) subscription? And they
>>> wonder why all the statistics appear to show that Australians are the worst
>>> media pirates on earth...
>>
>> It's the same in the US.
>
> I'd be more upset if I couldn't watch Breaking Bad!

In France you can't watch every season (via the expiration process you describe), you can't watch the last season because of media chronology (producer in France think that they should publish on plateform one by one to increase revenue, but that seems to only increase piracy. To make it short, you won't access the show before it's been on TV for a while). You ends up being able to watch one or two season in the middle and nothing else.

And don't even bother to search for the original version, not the one with ridiculous french voice (well usually, I have to say I prefers the french version of the Simpsons, but that because the translators are so good and that is really the exception).

In the meantime, people are ripping the show from TV in the US, translate the stuff and produce a pirate copy with translated subtitle in less than 2 days. And everybody wonder why people do download illegally.

Quite frankly I'd be willing to pay for services, but I've been burned one (seeing a lot of my stuff simply disappear because I changed country, that is freaking unacceptable for a service I'm paying for). The linux support was also terribly bad, but I had to be happy because that one one of the only services supporting it at all.

Unless the industry is showing signs of understanding, I'm done with theses stuffs. When amateurs can do better for free, you are not providing any service, you are just scamming your customers.

On 3 September 2013 02:19, John Colvin <john.loughran.colvin@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Monday, 2 September 2013 at 03:14:38 UTC, Manu wrote:
>
>> On 2 September 2013 04:00, bearophile <bearophileHUGS@lycos.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Manu:
>>>
>>>
>>>  Seriously, how do you quickly read and understand the API through the
>>>
>>>> noise?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The noise increases if you have to repeat the class name for each method :-)
>>>
>>>
>> Except that you can _read the class definition_.
>>
>> Look, I'm just giving an account of the collective experience from our
>> weekend. None of us could find anything easily in each others classes, or
>> quickly get a reasonable overview of it's design and how it worked.
>> This leads to needless conversations, asking the other person about it,
>> and
>> all those questions that I should be able to understand at a glance.
>> This WILL affect productivity in the office.
>>
>> The reason was that functions were polluting the class declaration. 9
>> times
>> out of 10, when I look at a class declaration, I want to know what it is,
>> what it has, and what it can do.
>>
>
> Code folding? It's a pretty standard feature of most editors since forever.
>

I think I've repeated myself 3 or 4 times here, but one more time for good measure...

Requiring IDE assistance to make code _readable_ seems completely fail to
me.
1) You're not always reading code in your IDE, often in commit logs, diff
windows, emails, chat clients.
2) With so much hate for IDE support, it seems like a massive contradiction
to say that an IDE should be required to make code readable.

Reading code is the most fundamental task in programming. Anything that gets in the way of code readability is an epic fail.

On 3 September 2013 03:29, Walter Bright <newshound2@digitalmars.com> wrote:

> On 9/1/2013 8:28 PM, Manu wrote:
>
>> D probably appeals more to ex-C++ users (I'm not aware of any sensis, but
>> D's
>> main offering at least to me, is an evolution from C++). We are used to
>> being
>> able to gather a quick summary of a class at a glance.
>> D (or perhaps just me) makes extensive use of local functions. If the
>> outer
>> function is at the leftmost tab level, it's easy to recognise if you're
>> reading
>> the code from a local function or not. If the outer function is already a
>> few
>> tab levels deep, I frequently find myself becoming unsure of what/where
>> I'm
>> actually reading.
>>
>
> I don't know if this is an IDE feature or not, but I've often thought of adding a command to my editor (MicroEmacs) to collapse/expand function bodies. This would make it convenient to navigate larger files - just collapse, move to the function you want to examine, then expand. It would also mitigate the issue you have. I theorize that VS doesn't have such a feature? Maybe IDEs are solving the wrong problem? :-)
>
> One that collapses out the comments would be great, too, as I've found one downside of Ddoc is it can get hard to find the code amongst the doc comments.
>

IDE's have this. I find myself thinking this more often than not when reviewing code, in commit windows, merge windows (with reduced horizontal space), etc.. you read code all over the place, not just where you type it.

On Mon, 2 Sep 2013 10:56:22 -0700
"H. S. Teoh" <hsteoh@quickfur.ath.cx> wrote:
> 
> I used to be a big fan of visual
> navigation -- pgUp, pgDn, paragraph up, paragraph down, etc., but
> beyond 500 lines or so, they quickly become impractical. Having a
> 1-key search function (that doesn't involve popups and other such
> annoyances) with reversible direction is a far superior approach.

For relatively local distances, I make ultra-heavy use of arrows/home/end/page-up/page-down (and the ctrl- versions of them). Although that does mean laptop/tablet/bluetooth keyboards are utterly useless to me since they only ever include those keys as a half-assed "we don't believe anyone ever uses them" token effort. Shit, even number pads get more respect...but now I'm digressing...

For larger distances I make heavy use of PN2's Quick Find which (since I've mapped it to Ctrl-F) works like in Firefox: Ctrl-F, type, maybe a few F3's if the first match isn't right, and done (plus, all matches are automatically highlighted). I just wish that it auto-selected the existing junk in the search box when you hit Ctrl-F like FF does.

And then for cross-module navigation there's "Find in Files" which works pretty well as a poor man's "go to usage/definition" (naturally I'd prefer the real thing, but with this the need for it isn't as strong).