On Monday, 3 June 2024 at 20:59:56 UTC, ryuukk_ wrote:

> This is getting tiring, you are getting tiring
>

Let's refrain from personal insults, please.

On Monday, 3 June 2024 at 20:59:56 UTC, ryuukk_ wrote:
> On Monday, 3 June 2024 at 18:58:48 UTC, Temtaime wrote:
>> On Sunday, 2 June 2024 at 06:30:18 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
>>> In recent days, it has become abundantly clear that the x86 architecture appears to be headed for obsolescence. The Arm processor is taking over. The Mac is dropping the x86 in favor of Arm. Microsoft has announced Arm laptops.
>>>
>>> Even my Raspberry Pi is an Arm64.
>>>
>>> What to do about dmd? Many people in the D community have expressed interest in creating an Arm backend for D. Since implementing a 64 bit code generator is trivial, I thought I'd look into it.
>>>
>>> I bought a couple books on the Arm, and have been studying the datasheet for it. Most of the backend can be repurposed to Arm. The structure of it can remain the same.
>>>
>>> The goal is Arm64, not Arm32. Since even the Pi is Arm64, there is no purpose in supporting the Arm32.
>>>
>>> Hacking away listening to Brain Pain metal, the first function compiles:
>>>
>>> ```
>>> void foo() { }
>>> ```
>>>
>>> dmd -c test.d -vasm
>>>
>>> producing:
>>>
>>> ```
>>> _D4test3fooFZv:
>>> 0000:   D6 5F 03 C0  ret
>>> ```
>>>
>>> And there it is! Nothing else works, but what the heck.
>>>
>>> https://github.com/WalterBright/dmd/commit/04546a8f72c10a09764f23675c67c5fbdf29628c
>>
>> Adding new features is always exciting, but it is crucial to ensure that these features are fully developed and bring real value to the users. Incomplete features can lead to confusion and frustration, ultimately hindering productivity rather than enhancing it.
>>
>> I would like to urge the development team to reconsider the current strategy and prioritize the completion and perfection of existing features before introducing new ones. By doing so, we can ensure a more robust, reliable, and user-friendly programming language.
>
> This is getting tiring, you are getting tiring
>
> If you don't understand the value, refrain from posting negativity
>
> If you have an issue from the tracker that requires more attention, create a separate thread and discuss there instead of spamming here
>
> People are free to explore new things, programming should not be a monotonous task that only slaves do
>
> Having ARM support means one can keep working on the language in a world that is transitioning to ARM, perhaps not for everyone, but totally for consumer PCs
>
> It is also an opportunity to look at old code and perhaps reorganize things and perhaps solve long standing issues along the way, it can only be useful
>
>
> DMD is a strength many languages doesn't have
>
> - VERY fast
>
> - good enough performance
>
> - free from LLVM
>
> Having ARM means staying relevant, attracts people interested in ARM and more importantly promotes the language, no language is bug free, but that shouldn't detract us from moving forward instead of decaying and dying

Disagreements are a natural part of any discussion, but it's essential to remain respectful. Resorting to insults doesn't contribute to a productive dialogue. I’m here to engage in a constructive conversation, not to spread negativity.

Regarding the core of the discussion, it's crucial to recognize that ARM is not poised to replace x86 entirely. The x86 architecture remains deeply entrenched in many sectors, including enterprise, gaming, and high-performance computing, where its performance and compatibility advantages are significant. While ARM support is beneficial, it complements rather than replaces x86.

Moreover, there is a plethora of new x86 products being released for servers, desktops, and IoT devices, indicating that the world is not transitioning to ARM exclusively. Both architectures have their place and will continue to coexist, serving different needs and markets.

On Tuesday, 4 June 2024 at 17:44:41 UTC, Temtaime wrote:
> On Monday, 3 June 2024 at 20:59:56 UTC, ryuukk_ wrote:
>> On Monday, 3 June 2024 at 18:58:48 UTC, Temtaime wrote:
>>> On Sunday, 2 June 2024 at 06:30:18 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
>>>> In recent days, it has become abundantly clear that the x86 architecture appears to be headed for obsolescence. The Arm processor is taking over. The Mac is dropping the x86 in favor of Arm. Microsoft has announced Arm laptops.
>>>>
>>>> Even my Raspberry Pi is an Arm64.
>>>>
>>>> What to do about dmd? Many people in the D community have expressed interest in creating an Arm backend for D. Since implementing a 64 bit code generator is trivial, I thought I'd look into it.
>>>>
>>>> I bought a couple books on the Arm, and have been studying the datasheet for it. Most of the backend can be repurposed to Arm. The structure of it can remain the same.
>>>>
>>>> The goal is Arm64, not Arm32. Since even the Pi is Arm64, there is no purpose in supporting the Arm32.
>>>>
>>>> Hacking away listening to Brain Pain metal, the first function compiles:
>>>>
>>>> ```
>>>> void foo() { }
>>>> ```
>>>>
>>>> dmd -c test.d -vasm
>>>>
>>>> producing:
>>>>
>>>> ```
>>>> _D4test3fooFZv:
>>>> 0000:   D6 5F 03 C0  ret
>>>> ```
>>>>
>>>> And there it is! Nothing else works, but what the heck.
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/WalterBright/dmd/commit/04546a8f72c10a09764f23675c67c5fbdf29628c
>>>
>>> Adding new features is always exciting, but it is crucial to ensure that these features are fully developed and bring real value to the users. Incomplete features can lead to confusion and frustration, ultimately hindering productivity rather than enhancing it.
>>>
>>> I would like to urge the development team to reconsider the current strategy and prioritize the completion and perfection of existing features before introducing new ones. By doing so, we can ensure a more robust, reliable, and user-friendly programming language.
>>
>> This is getting tiring, you are getting tiring
>>
>> If you don't understand the value, refrain from posting negativity
>>
>> If you have an issue from the tracker that requires more attention, create a separate thread and discuss there instead of spamming here
>>
>> People are free to explore new things, programming should not be a monotonous task that only slaves do
>>
>> Having ARM support means one can keep working on the language in a world that is transitioning to ARM, perhaps not for everyone, but totally for consumer PCs
>>
>> It is also an opportunity to look at old code and perhaps reorganize things and perhaps solve long standing issues along the way, it can only be useful
>>
>>
>> DMD is a strength many languages doesn't have
>>
>> - VERY fast
>>
>> - good enough performance
>>
>> - free from LLVM
>>
>> Having ARM means staying relevant, attracts people interested in ARM and more importantly promotes the language, no language is bug free, but that shouldn't detract us from moving forward instead of decaying and dying
>
> Disagreements are a natural part of any discussion, but it's essential to remain respectful. Resorting to insults doesn't contribute to a productive dialogue. I’m here to engage in a constructive conversation, not to spread negativity.

I didn't mean to sound insulting, i apologize

On Tuesday, 4 June 2024 at 17:44:41 UTC, Temtaime wrote:

> Regarding the core of the discussion, it's crucial to recognize that ARM is not poised to replace x86 entirely. The x86 architecture remains deeply entrenched in many sectors, including enterprise, gaming, and high-performance computing, where its performance and compatibility advantages are significant. While ARM support is beneficial, it complements rather than replaces x86.

The only real (technical) moat that x86 has is backwards compatibility (and windows).

For raw performance the instruction doesn't make much difference (if any) other than in microbenchmarks here and there. I think Arm has some advantages in terms of perf/watt but I don't know any exact figures (e.g. the things I'm thinking of might not actually matter)

The best laptop processors at the moment are Apple's Arm chips, for example. Microsoft similarly are making another big push for Arm hardware at the moment.

As for HPC: Quite a few Arm supercomputers in the TOP500 these days (e.g. fugaku)

On 6/2/24 08:30, Walter Bright wrote:
> 
> Hacking away listening to Brain Pain metal, the first function compiles:
> 
> ```
> void foo() { }
> ```
> 
> dmd -c test.d -vasm
> 
> producing:
> 
> ```
> _D4test3fooFZv:
> 0000:   D6 5F 03 C0  ret
> ```

Nice!

On Wednesday, 5 June 2024 at 01:41:36 UTC, max haughton wrote:
>
> The best laptop processors at the moment are Apple's Arm chips, for example. Microsoft similarly are making another big push for Arm hardware at the moment.

One small qualitative data point: I have a couple of Mac Minis, one with an M2 processor and the other with a 3.6 Ghz Intel I3 processor. Same config otherwise (8MB, 256MB NVME SDD, both running latest MacOS version). The M2 machine is noticeably faster. I was surprised by how great the difference was when I first got it.

I've been tweeting progress reports with #AArch64 on

https://twitter.com/WalterBright

On Wednesday, 12 June 2024 at 23:07:59 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> I've been tweeting progress reports with #AArch64 on
>
> https://twitter.com/WalterBright

I'm not on Twitter so I can't see your tweets, but I can say that we in OpenBSD land are looking forward to aarch64 support in DMD.

~Brian

On 6/12/2024 5:52 PM, Brian Callahan wrote:
> On Wednesday, 12 June 2024 at 23:07:59 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
>> I've been tweeting progress reports with #AArch64 on
>>
>> https://twitter.com/WalterBright
> 
> I'm not on Twitter so I can't see your tweets,

You don't need to be on Twitter to see the tweets, just browse to that page.

> but I can say that we in OpenBSD land are looking forward to aarch64 support in DMD.

And I'm looking forward to getting it done!

On Thursday, 13 June 2024 at 06:35:54 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
>
> You don't need to be on Twitter to see the tweets, just browse to that page.

depends on the day of the week and phase of the moon

the heavens have spoken and said "no" today