On Wednesday, 31 January 2018 at 16:13:51 UTC, John Gabriele wrote:
> On Wednesday, 31 January 2018 at 11:42:14 UTC, Seb wrote:
>>
>> That's only an issue on Windows.
>> For Posix there's the official install.sh script [1].
>>
>> [1] https://dlang.org/install.html
>
> I've never seen that page. Would've helped me to see it earlier. The D download page should include a blurb with a link to that install page.
>

It's actually pretty new. I had created an issue in December to add it and wilzbach created it.

On Wednesday, 31 January 2018 at 16:13:51 UTC, John Gabriele wrote:
> I've never seen that page. Would've helped me to see it earlier. The D download page should include a blurb with a link to that install page.

BTW that's why opening issues is so important:
- everyone has a different experience, knowledge and mindset
- feedback is very important

PR to always display the icons: https://github.com/dlang/dlang.org/pull/2154

On Wednesday, 31 January 2018 at 17:30:54 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> Wow.  I set out *deliberately* looking for that link, and couldn't find it until I looked at your screenshot. I definitely wouldn't have found it if I didn't even know it was there.
>
> I'm no UI consultant, but that link definitely needs to be made more visible.  Is the hover thing really *necessary*?  For something this important, I'd say it's a bad idea to hide it behind a hover (I use keyboard navigation, and so wouldn't even have noticed it, though I concede that I'm a rare case :-P). But then I don't know the original reasoning behind making it hover.

Let's try to change this!

https://github.com/dlang/dlang.org/pull/2154

On Wednesday, 31 January 2018 at 17:02:06 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:
>
> Is it?  Why do so many people have problems with it then? Stupidity?

Perhaps the D front page can say "Now with 1 Standard Library!" ;)

>
> Ok, and now you are entering a messy space, define "legitimate"?  I think the most important issue he raised was how project management is either under-communicated or conducted.

The best programmers won't necessarily be the best at project management or communication. That's ok...provided people better suited at project management or communication can and do contribute their skills. For instance, Mike Parker's work on the D blog has been a great improvement in communication the past year or two.

On Wednesday, 31 January 2018 at 17:30:54 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 05:20:59PM +0000, Seb via Digitalmars-d
>> 
>> Please let us know what would help you to find this page quicker.
>
> Wow.  I set out *deliberately* looking for that link, and couldn't find it until I looked at your screenshot. I definitely wouldn't have found it if I didn't even know it was there.

I just discovered that the individual os-specific dmd downloads *also* have links associated with them.

Seb, I've added a comment to your PR 2154. Thanks.

On Tuesday, 30 January 2018 at 20:45:44 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> https://www.quora.com/Why-hasnt-D-started-to-replace-C++
>
> Andrei

For me personally, there are some really nasty bugs regarding default attributes (@nogc/@safe) that prevent me from using D in personal code projects.
Examples being:
Destroy can't be called in @safe and @nogc  context even it is the base class destructor is marked with @safe and @nogc. Among other base object functions.
https://dlang.org/phobos/object.html
This bug requires a DIP to fix(I was thinking about writing up one, but I am not sure if I should do that).
I don't want new features, I just want to fix the current existing bugs.


Alex

On Wednesday, 31 January 2018 at 12:34:01 UTC, Martin Tschierschke wrote:
> On Wednesday, 31 January 2018 at 12:03:22 UTC, rjframe wrote:
>> On Wed, 31 Jan 2018 10:55:56 +0000, Benny wrote:
>>
> [...]
>
>> Anyway, mostly because of your recent posts I'm going to take a look at DlangIDE. If we can package a cross-platform IDE+compiler+dub as a single download and you're ready to go, that might make it easier to give D a try, even if most people would later set up something else; at least you'd only deal with the problems after you've decided it's worth it.
>
> Yes, would be very good!
>
> And than ad a series of short example programs, to this one-stop-download,
> maybe party from Adam's arsd.
>
> Like: https://github.com/adamdruppe/arsd/blob/master/simpledisplay.d
> And the examples from D-Lang Tour.
>
> So you only push a button [try D], and get a running environment to play around.

Like this?

https://tour.dlang.org/tour/en/dub/mir

It's a small series since today. Any help with filling the blank content or new pages is welcome.

See https://forum.dlang.org/post/acovehcwaxjykmhekuwh@forum.dlang.org for adding new libraries to run.dlang.io

On 1/31/18 5:35 AM, Benny wrote:

> Auto generated libraries where all functions are dumped into massive one pagers.
> 
> https://dlang.org/phobos/std_datetime_date.html
> 
> Is this readable when the first two pages are this:
> 
> jan
> feb
> mar
> apr
> may
> jun
> jul
> aug
> sep
> oct
> nov
> dec
> sun
> mon
> tue
> wed
> thu
> fri
> sat
> 
> Const "jump to" lists intermixed between the documentation.
> 
> No clear function calls:
> 
> const pure nothrow @nogc @property @safe ubyte daysInMonth();
> 
> Const
> Pure
> nothrow
> @nogc
> @property
> @safe
> ubyte ...
> 
> and FINALLY the actual function call your looking for: daysInMonth();

This is an issue that was recently introduced. Until dconf2017 (May of last year), all of std.datetime was in one file.

But while the code was split into logical units, the documentation was not. Unfortunately, it needs a lot of attention to make sure the docs are written to cater to the new split design.

> And please ... do like always, cut my post into small parts and start criticizing and attacking the author that he needs to "put more effort into it or pay". Or some other bullshit. And then complain how people troll the forum because they complain and not do anything to solve it. Tired of reading the same rhetoric as are the people who think posts like this are troll posts.

We are always here to help with issues in D, and constructive criticism is welcome and appreciated! But I don't know how to help you with the "D sucks, everyone should use some other language" issue. It's not part of my knowledgebase.

-Steve

On Wednesday, 31 January 2018 at 17:02:06 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:
> Ok, and now you are entering a messy space, define "legitimate"?

Actionable, clear, and made with the intent to better the language/ecosystem and not just to complain.

> Development processes need continuous improvement.

And we have been. I would rate our QA tooling to be 3x better now than when I started.

> For some reason this ranks below colourful error-messages.

That's just something that Walter was able to bang out in an hour, should have been done years ago, and was excited about. There's tons of work being done on GH that's never talked about here in the forums.

> Whatever spot D is in right now in comparison to other projects, good or bad, most certainly isn't because of a lack of marketing.

We clearly have a lot of work to do on messaging when many of the Quora answers are using eight year old information as condemnation.

> People expect less friction today than they did 10 years ago.
> To some extent Microsoft, Google, Jetbrains and others have handed out slick freebies and conditioned programmers to be more demanding.

True. D would be a in great place if everything worked out of the box if people wanted an IDE. But the post I was replying to first noted issues with the ecosystem six days ago, and has already rage quit over it.

On 01/31/2018 05:55 AM, Benny wrote:
> On Wednesday, 31 January 2018 at 10:35:06 UTC, Benny wrote:
>> Let me say this again
> 
> *uch* Never mind this rant. I am just fed up with the issues. I will not post anymore as its just a wast of time for everybody involved.

A few of the points were actionable. I've asked folks to look into the documentation matters. Thanks, and keep them coming. -- Andrei