On Tuesday, 14 June 2022 at 10:29:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

>
> But again, I'm just a guy expressing his opinion. Walter and Atila are the ones you need to convince.
>
> Talking about it endlessly in the forums has zero chance of getting the feature in. You guys posting about it in every so write a DIP.
> Get feedback from others who support it and try to craft a rationale that Walter and Atila will find compelling enough to accept (i.e., show that the benefit outweighs the added cost in maintenance and language complexity, why the arguments against it are wrong, etc.).
>
> Once you submit it and it's had enough time in Draft Review that you're satisfied with it, I'll even give it priority over any other DIPs in the queue.

Rationales have been presented. Walter has commented. It is obvious the feature won't get in. Why ask people to waste their time on a DIP that has zero chance to be accepted?

On Tuesday, 14 June 2022 at 10:47:36 UTC, bauss wrote:
> On Tuesday, 14 June 2022 at 10:29:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
>>
>> Once you submit it and it's had enough time in Draft Review that you're satisfied with it, I'll even give it priority over any other DIPs in the queue.
>
> Personally I would do it, but I unfortunately do not have enough time on my hands that I could even do that and I do believe it would be the right way to do it instead of these long discussions about it here in the forum.
>
> If anyone is willing to do it, then I for sure wouldn't mind helping but I don't have enough time to write a whole DIP by myself.

I don't agree.

As someone who has observed politics for a long time, I can tell you, that things come about as a result of discussion, and not becasue someone has brought a new policy to the floor.

You bring the policy to the floor, when you have a reasonable understanding of the likelihood of success of that policy getting passed, and you cannot determine that except by having the discussions first.

Of course discussions continue to take place once a policy is brought to the floor.

The other likely outcome here, is that many are keeping silent and will not 'come out' unless or until a DIP is produced, and then they will feel forced to come out - either to express the rejection or acceptance of the idea.

I think there is a signficant silent majority here, and it makes it difficult to assess whether it's worth the effort of doing a DIP.

What does seem clear, is that core reject this idea outright.

In which case, if a majority wanted it, what would core do?

Would we see another phobos-tango situation arise?

There is also the question of Swift, which for me, has this feature already, as you'd expect, and also provides many, perhaps even most, of the features that attracted me to D.

So where i spend my effort, is also a consideration ;-)

On Tuesday, 14 June 2022 at 11:15:41 UTC, forkit wrote:
>
> There is also the question of Swift, which for me, has this feature already, as you'd expect, and also provides many, perhaps even most, of the features that attracted me to D.
>

oh. and Swift has many additional features that I find interesting, and useful,
and ones that D doesn't have, and likely will never, ever have.

I think D is living in its own little world sometimes.

Others have already passed it by, and more will too.

On Tuesday, 14 June 2022 at 10:45:15 UTC, bauss wrote:

>
> I think it's really ignorant to have a stance like that with a programming language that strives to be general-purpose. The whole point of a programming language to be general-purpose is that you might not need all the features or see value in all features, but you have them at your disposal if needed, because you want to appeal to as many people as possible.
>
> I can't say I'm shocked, because it's the usual view with D, barely anyone in the community is willing to compromise.

I'm not the gatekeeper. There's nothing for me to compromise on. If the feature gets in, that's fine. Life goes on. I'm not speaking for Walter or Atila when I express my opinion on this. D is already a complex language, so I just think that *any* new feature should have a strong justification. Personally, I haven't seen one yet for this one. But if you can convince Walter and Atila, more power to you.

On Tuesday, 14 June 2022 at 12:15:44 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
> On Tuesday, 14 June 2022 at 10:45:15 UTC, bauss wrote:
>
>>
>> I think it's really ignorant to have a stance like that with a programming language that strives to be general-purpose. The whole point of a programming language to be general-purpose is that you might not need all the features or see value in all features, but you have them at your disposal if needed, because you want to appeal to as many people as possible.
>>
>> I can't say I'm shocked, because it's the usual view with D, barely anyone in the community is willing to compromise.
>
> I'm not the gatekeeper. There's nothing for me to compromise on. If the feature gets in, that's fine. Life goes on. I'm not speaking for Walter or Atila when I express my opinion on this. D is already a complex language, so I just think that *any* new feature should have a strong justification. Personally, I haven't seen one yet for this one. But if you can convince Walter and Atila, more power to you.

I don't think anyone can convince them, at least not Walter.