On Saturday, 28 October 2017 at 14:43:38 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> I explicitly mentioned that I did *******NOT******* want VS installed.

So? If you don't want to use it, then don't use D, or don't use Windows. There's simple solution to your problem. Rust requires VS, you can't build on Windows without it. It's not that big of a deal to require. If you don't want to use it, then go ahead, D is open source see how easy it is to replace with something else.

> The majority of time spent was downloading the damn thing!

Again with the size issue, 3.5 GB isn't that big of a file. Start the download and go do something, time management is a skill. You don't have to sit there and watch it download, even if you have shitty internet.

On Saturday, 28 October 2017 at 15:36:38 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> But if you really are missing my point..then let me state it more clearly...
>
> (1) I don't like waiting 4 hours to download gigabytes of crap I don't actually want, but somehow need (if I want to compile 64bit D that is).

Start the download when you go to sleep, when you wake up it will be finished. I did this as a kid when I had internet that was probably even slower than yours right now. It'll be like those 4 hours never even happened.

> (2)I like to have choice.
>
> A fast internet might help with (1).
>
> (2) seems out of reach (and that's why I dont' and won't be using D on Windows ;-)

It's probably why you shouldn't be on Windows to begin with..

> (being a recreational programmer, I have that luxury..I understand that others do not, but that's no reason for 'some' to dismiss my concerns as irrelevant. They're relavent to me, and that's all that matters ;-)

Talk about being narcissistic ;)

On Saturday, 28 October 2017 at 19:46:00 UTC, Jerry wrote:
> It's probably why you shouldn't be on Windows to begin with..

I'm not. I'm on FreeBSD.

> Talk about being narcissistic ;)

I wasn't talking about narcissism, I was talking about trolling.

Narcissism was not correlated with trolling enjoyment in that study I mentioned.

If you want a debate. Fine.

If you want to troll...go elsewhere.

On Saturday, 28 October 2017 at 19:46:00 UTC, Jerry wrote:
> Start the download when you go to sleep, when you wake up it will be finished. I did this as a kid when I had internet that was probably even slower than yours right now. It'll be like those 4 hours never even happened.
>


That's greate advice Jerry.

Perhaps that should go up on the wiki...

"NOTE: If you're using Windows, and you want to use the -m64 mode to compile D into 64bit code, you will need to download several GB's of other stuff...and if you have slow internet connection...then just start it when you go to sleep..and when you wake up it will be finished. It'll be like those 4 hours never even happened."

On Sunday, 29 October 2017 at 00:17:10 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> On Saturday, 28 October 2017 at 19:46:00 UTC, Jerry wrote:
>> It's probably why you shouldn't be on Windows to begin with..
>
> I'm not. I'm on FreeBSD.

So why do you care about something that doesn't even affect you?

>> Talk about being narcissistic ;)
>
> I wasn't talking about narcissism, I was talking about trolling.
>
> Narcissism was not correlated with trolling enjoyment in that study I mentioned.

It is when someone is only thinking about themselves, such as yourself and wanting D to not use tools that you aren't even complaining about being good enough. You are just complaining about it cause it's a large download size. I find people always refer to people as trolls instead of creating a counterpoint to their argument. It's a lot easier to just label someone a troll and ignore their arguments than building a case for a baseless request.

On Sunday, 29 October 2017 at 00:45:08 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> On Saturday, 28 October 2017 at 19:46:00 UTC, Jerry wrote:
>> Start the download when you go to sleep, when you wake up it will be finished. I did this as a kid when I had internet that was probably even slower than yours right now. It'll be like those 4 hours never even happened.
>>
>
>
> That's greate advice Jerry.
>
> Perhaps that should go up on the wiki...
>
> "NOTE: If you're using Windows, and you want to use the -m64 mode to compile D into 64bit code, you will need to download several GB's of other stuff...and if you have slow internet connection...then just start it when you go to sleep..and when you wake up it will be finished. It'll be like those 4 hours never even happened."

Most developers don't have shitty internet though, the one's that do don't go whining about it trying to use something "better", where better is just a substitute for smaller package size. Visual Studio is probably the most reliable and stable toolchain on Windows, the only thing anyone (ehm you) has to say bad about it is it's download size. I'd say that's better damn near the best D can do if the only thing someone has to complain about it is the download size.

On Sunday, 29 October 2017 at 01:07:17 UTC, Jerry wrote:
>
> So why do you care about something that doesn't even affect you?
>

Well, if you had been following the discussion, instead of just trying to troll, then you would know that I was essentially doing an experiment.

AIM: If I was using Windows, and wanted to compile 64bit D code, but did *NOT* want to install VS, then what would be the minimum components required (of VS's build tools).

The outcome, **for me**, of that experiment, was a whole day wasted - mostly waiting for GB's of build tools to download.

Not to mention the service packs, updates and .NET framework installation.

Then there's getting your head around the various licence agreements, and alos trying to understand what these new processes running on my system are doing..and why are they talking to servers on the internet.....

Coming from a non-windows C background ... the whole thing was a little daunting.

I guess if you're used to all the bloat that comes with Windows...(as you seem to be) or have to use it for practical reasons ....then nothing about my little experiment would surprise you..

So I'm executing my right to free speech, and I'm saying that I don't like it, and I wish it was better. Is that so bad?

On 10/28/17 12:46, Jerry wrote:
> On Saturday, 28 October 2017 at 15:36:38 UTC, codephantom wrote:
>> But if you really are missing my point..then let me state it more
>> clearly...
>>
>> (1) I don't like waiting 4 hours to download gigabytes of crap I don't
>> actually want, but somehow need (if I want to compile 64bit D that is).
>
> Start the download when you go to sleep, when you wake up it will be
> finished. I did this as a kid when I had internet that was probably even
> slower than yours right now. It'll be like those 4 hours never even
> happened.
>
>> (2)I like to have choice.
>>
>> A fast internet might help with (1).
>>
>> (2) seems out of reach (and that's why I dont' and won't be using D on
>> Windows ;-)
>
> It's probably why you shouldn't be on Windows to begin with..
>
>> (being a recreational programmer, I have that luxury..I understand
>> that others do not, but that's no reason for 'some' to dismiss my
>> concerns as irrelevant. They're relavent to me, and that's all that
>> matters ;-)
>
> Talk about being narcissistic ;)

Hey Jerry, I appreciate what you're trying to accomplish .. but uh ... don't feed that trolls. ;)

-- 
Adam Wilson
IRC: LightBender
import quiet.dlang.dev;

On Sunday, 29 October 2017 at 01:43:46 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> So I'm executing my right to free speech, and I'm saying that I don't like it, and I wish it was better. Is that so bad?

You are doing more than saying you don't like it. You are requesting and advocating for the removal of a feature that has no reason to be removed. I never said you couldn't say you don't like it, you are free and welcome to do so. I never even said you can't request for a feature to be removed. I'm simply making the counter argument for why it shouldn't be, and I'm free to do that as you are free to make horrible requests.

Anyways you keep trying to change your argument and make it appear as something else. Your free speech was never in jeopardy from the beginning, I never told you couldn't say anything. It's clear where this is going and it's clear you have no intentions of actually making any attempt to justify your request as it is unjustifiable. Good day.

On Sunday, 29 October 2017 at 01:43:46 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> On Sunday, 29 October 2017 at 01:07:17 UTC, Jerry wrote:
>>
>> So why do you care about something that doesn't even affect you?
>>
>
> Well, if you had been following the discussion, instead of just trying to troll, then you would know that I was essentially doing an experiment.
>
> AIM: If I was using Windows, and wanted to compile 64bit D code, but did *NOT* want to install VS, then what would be the minimum components required (of VS's build tools).
>
> The outcome, **for me**, of that experiment, was a whole day wasted - mostly waiting for GB's of build tools to download.
>
> Not to mention the service packs, updates and .NET framework installation.
>
> Then there's getting your head around the various licence agreements, and alos trying to understand what these new processes running on my system are doing..and why are they talking to servers on the internet.....
>
> Coming from a non-windows C background ... the whole thing was a little daunting.
>
> I guess if you're used to all the bloat that comes with Windows...(as you seem to be) or have to use it for practical reasons ....then nothing about my little experiment would surprise you..
>
> So I'm executing my right to free speech, and I'm saying that I don't like it, and I wish it was better. Is that so bad?

It seems to me that you have a major case of anti-windows bias here, as I never have any issues on my main windows machine.