On Tuesday, 24 September 2013 at 18:19:26 UTC, Rainer Schuetze wrote:
>
>
> On 24.09.2013 19:16, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>> On 9/22/13 7:05 AM, Rainer Schuetze wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 21.09.2013 13:06, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>>> Preapproved. Looking forward to the appropriate pull request. Rainer?
>>>>
>>>> Andrei
>>>
>>> I have created pull requests
>>>
>>> https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/384 and
>>> https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/385
>>>
>>> the result can be seen here:
>>> http://rainers.github.io/visuald/download.html
>>>
>>> Should we add links to Mono-D and DDT aswell?
>>
>> I think so.
>>
>
> Ok, will add these. Bruno and Alex, is it ok for you? What are the appropriate links? Are there any direct download links?
>

One little problem. MonoDevelop isn't always up to date on various repos. Because of this, Alexander builds his own version. This precompiled package is hosted at my server. While I don't reboot it very often, it is perhaps not the best place to store this if it's "part" of D by being placed on the homepage. I would recommend hosting the MonoDevelop build as well so no user comes complaining if my server is down.

On 24.09.2013 21:31, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> On 9/24/13 11:19 AM, Rainer Schuetze wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 24.09.2013 19:16, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>> On 9/22/13 7:05 AM, Rainer Schuetze wrote:
>>>> Should we add links to Mono-D and DDT aswell?
>>>
>>> I think so.
>>>
>>
>> Ok, will add these. Bruno and Alex, is it ok for you? What are the
>> appropriate links? Are there any direct download links?
>
> Thanks very much for leading this.
>
>>>> Links are still to other sites, how do we get the installer and the
>>>> Visual D pages uploaded to dlang.org?
>>
>>>
>>> Walter, Brad, or I need to do the upload for now (we're working on
>>> improving the process). What you'd need to do is just create pull
>>> requests for the site and the installer. Once pulled, we'll build and
>>> upload.
>>>
>>
>> Do you mean that I should add the documentation to the dlang.org
>> repository? It's currently part of the visuald repository, and it could
>> also be referred to by the makefile in dlang.org, but that might mean
>> that people building that will also have to clone the visuald repository.
>
> I preapprove any pages that refer exclusively to Visual D in the
> dlang.org repo. I trust you to design and write them within the site
> look and feel, and to organize them in directories appropriately.
>
> Alternatively, if you prefer to distinguish Visual D's identity, feel
> free to keep your own site and pages for it. I'd personally prefer
> integration - we're small enough to thrive on integration.

The documentation has already been converted to ddoc and can be seen here: http://rainers.github.io/visuald/visuald/StartPage.html

I'll see how these can be intgrated with the dlang.org makefiles.

>
>> Regarding the installer: Visual D should be built with a precise GC, but
>> that's currently only possible with a patched compiler and runtime. I'll
>> have to provide the binaries somehow, but I think git isn't appropriate
>> to do so.
>
> Hmmm, where's that effort right now? The fact that we have a serious
> application needing precise GC is a good argument to make it the
> default, or at least an easy to choose option.

One big issue with it is correct RTInfo generation. I've made an attempt to fix the compiler ( https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dmd/pull/2480 ), but that didn't get any reviews so far.

Druntime patches are here: https://github.com/rainers/druntime/tree/gcx_precise but they break the test suite without the patch above.

In addition something has to be done about specifying type info for the data segment. I have some compiler/druntime patches for that, but they are specific to the OMF file format so far. Some general solution would be better.

On 9/24/13 2:13 PM, Rainer Schuetze wrote:
> One big issue with it is correct RTInfo generation. I've made an attempt
> to fix the compiler (
> https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dmd/pull/2480 ), but that
> didn't get any reviews so far.
>
> Druntime patches are here:
> https://github.com/rainers/druntime/tree/gcx_precise but they break the
> test suite without the patch above.
>
> In addition something has to be done about specifying type info for the
> data segment. I have some compiler/druntime patches for that, but they
> are specific to the OMF file format so far. Some general solution would
> be better.

Core/druntime teams: could you please put this on the front burner? Thanks!

Andrei

On Tuesday, 24 September 2013 at 20:32:51 UTC, simendsjo wrote:
> On Tuesday, 24 September 2013 at 18:19:26 UTC, Rainer Schuetze wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 24.09.2013 19:16, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>> On 9/22/13 7:05 AM, Rainer Schuetze wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 21.09.2013 13:06, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>>>> Preapproved. Looking forward to the appropriate pull request. Rainer?
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrei
>>>>
>>>> I have created pull requests
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/384 and
>>>> https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/385
>>>>
>>>> the result can be seen here:
>>>> http://rainers.github.io/visuald/download.html
>>>>
>>>> Should we add links to Mono-D and DDT aswell?
>>>
>>> I think so.
>>>
>>
>> Ok, will add these. Bruno and Alex, is it ok for you? What are the appropriate links? Are there any direct download links?
>>
>
> One little problem. MonoDevelop isn't always up to date on various repos. Because of this, Alexander builds his own version. This precompiled package is hosted at my server. While I don't reboot it very often, it is perhaps not the best place to store this if it's "part" of D by being placed on the homepage. I would recommend hosting the MonoDevelop build as well so no user comes complaining if my server is down.

I actually think Mono-D must chose one long term support MonoDevelop version before being officially endorsed. Currently I am not aware of a single distro where it will work out of the box with stock MonoDevelop and forcing people to use that blob or compile from sources does not really smell good. I know this is much stress on Alex but simply don't see other way around.

On Tuesday, 24 September 2013 at 20:32:51 UTC, simendsjo wrote:
> On Tuesday, 24 September 2013 at 18:19:26 UTC, Rainer Schuetze wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 24.09.2013 19:16, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>> On 9/22/13 7:05 AM, Rainer Schuetze wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 21.09.2013 13:06, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>>>> Preapproved. Looking forward to the appropriate pull request. Rainer?
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrei
>>>>
>>>> I have created pull requests
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/384 and
>>>> https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/385
>>>>
>>>> the result can be seen here:
>>>> http://rainers.github.io/visuald/download.html
>>>>
>>>> Should we add links to Mono-D and DDT aswell?
>>>
>>> I think so.
>>>
>>
>> Ok, will add these. Bruno and Alex, is it ok for you? What are the appropriate links? Are there any direct download links?
>>
>
> One little problem. MonoDevelop isn't always up to date on various repos. Because of this, Alexander builds his own version. This precompiled package is hosted at my server. While I don't reboot it very often, it is perhaps not the best place to store this if it's "part" of D by being placed on the homepage. I would recommend hosting the MonoDevelop build as well so no user comes complaining if my server is down.

IMHO We need also to convince Alexander to develop against some tagged release of MonoDevelop.

If you see my comments to his last rant, you'll see that Mono-D is not working even with the latest  'alpha' release of MonoDevelop, and if I've understood well (really, I'm not sure to have understood Alexander motivations about this) it is arguing that he needs the very latest code.

The point is that if a 20 days old release is "too old", I think we have a problem here...

- Paolo Invernizzi

On 2013-09-24 23:16, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

> Core/druntime teams: could you please put this on the front burner? Thanks!

Might be a bit hard to find your post here deep inside this thread.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

On Tuesday, 24 September 2013 at 22:53:39 UTC, Dicebot wrote:
> On Tuesday, 24 September 2013 at 20:32:51 UTC, simendsjo wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 24 September 2013 at 18:19:26 UTC, Rainer Schuetze wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24.09.2013 19:16, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>>> On 9/22/13 7:05 AM, Rainer Schuetze wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 21.09.2013 13:06, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>>>>> Preapproved. Looking forward to the appropriate pull request. Rainer?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrei
>>>>>
>>>>> I have created pull requests
>>>>>
>>>>> https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/384 and
>>>>> https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/385
>>>>>
>>>>> the result can be seen here:
>>>>> http://rainers.github.io/visuald/download.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Should we add links to Mono-D and DDT aswell?
>>>>
>>>> I think so.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ok, will add these. Bruno and Alex, is it ok for you? What are the appropriate links? Are there any direct download links?
>>>
>>
>> One little problem. MonoDevelop isn't always up to date on various repos. Because of this, Alexander builds his own version. This precompiled package is hosted at my server. While I don't reboot it very often, it is perhaps not the best place to store this if it's "part" of D by being placed on the homepage. I would recommend hosting the MonoDevelop build as well so no user comes complaining if my server is down.
>
> I actually think Mono-D must chose one long term support MonoDevelop version before being officially endorsed. Currently I am not aware of a single distro where it will work out of the box with stock MonoDevelop and forcing people to use that blob or compile from sources does not really smell good. I know this is much stress on Alex but simply don't see other way around.

The problem as I understand it is that distros pack different versions of MD, and MD keeps changing it's API for every release. In other words - there is no long-term support. Mono-D needs to either support the latest and greatest and prepare a MD release each time the API changes, or try to support as many API versions as possible. I think the latter is problematic.

On Wednesday, 25 September 2013 at 11:42:41 UTC, simendsjo wrote:
> The problem as I understand it is that distros pack different versions of MD, and MD keeps changing it's API for every release. In other words - there is no long-term support. Mono-D needs to either support the latest and greatest and prepare a MD release each time the API changes, or try to support as many API versions as possible. I think the latter is problematic.

Yeah, I know that, Alex has been speaking about it some time ago. But providing older/newer version of MonoDevelop for specific distro is not that difficult - only if this version is not going to change every month or so though.

Given the way they break API it will make sense to stick to current major branch once it gets relatively stable and just ignore newer releases. Bleeding edge distros will be dissapointed but MonoDevelop guys push it far out of the limits of reasonable bleeding edge.

Or probably someone can come up with some different solution. What I am convinced about is that _current_ situation is unacceptable for officially endorces project.

On Wednesday, 25 September 2013 at 11:54:22 UTC, Dicebot wrote:
>
> Given the way they break API it will make sense to stick to current major branch once it gets relatively stable and just ignore newer releases. Bleeding edge distros will be dissapointed but MonoDevelop guys push it far out of the limits of reasonable bleeding edge.
>
For what it's worth, even our Gentoo maintainers have apparently gotten fed up with their crap.  There are two versions in the main Portage tree right now: 2.8.5.1 and 3.0.2-r1. Both are marked stable.  Make of that what you will.

-Wyatt

On 24/09/2013 19:19, Rainer Schuetze wrote:
>>> the result can be seen here:
>>> http://rainers.github.io/visuald/download.html
>>>
>>> Should we add links to Mono-D and DDT aswell?
>>
>> I think so.
>>
>
> Ok, will add these. Bruno and Alex, is it ok for you? What are the
> appropriate links? Are there any direct download links?

There are no direct downloads for DDT. The closest starting point is:
http://code.google.com/p/ddt/wiki/Installation

I'm ok with links being added, although I'm not sure what all this would help to achieve. It partially duplicates the http://wiki.dlang.org/IDEs wiki entry, which is linked in the downloads navigation sidebar. BTW that sub-sidebar could use a cleanup as well, the whole thing is a bit disjoint.

-- 
Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer