On Thursday, 3 November 2016 at 06:11:08 UTC, Joakim wrote:
> On Sunday, 30 October 2016 at 10:04:02 UTC, Patrick Schluter wrote:
>> On Sunday, 30 October 2016 at 06:39:42 UTC, Joakim wrote:
>>>
>>> It is not worth it, the web is dying.  I was stunned to see this chart of mobile web usage in the US:
>>>
>>> https://mobile.twitter.com/asymco/status/777915894659964928
>>>
>>> This isn't some third-world country with mostly 2G usage, the web numbers in those places are much worse. Combined with mobile passing even TV for time spent, there is no point in wasting time porting D to a dying platform.
>>
>> Yes, because outside of web on mobile nothing else exists... bwahahahah
>
> Pretty soon it won't:
>
> https://mobile.twitter.com/asymco/status/793401867053195264
>

Even that chart shows a flattening to an asymptote not a linear trend. This means desktop will maube go a little bit down but it won't disappear. What people often forget is that professional office PC will never be completely replaced by mobile. What also happens in that branch (i.e. in office environment) is still a continuation to replace PC application by browser applications. This means that still focussing on good web solutions server or client side is a good investment in any case.

> On Sunday, 30 October 2016 at 16:35:54 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote:
>> And wouldn't the changes to runtime and phobos be quite similar for both dmd and ldc? I don't see how the work flow would be any different as a language user whether you used an LDC with wasm back end,  or dmd with similar.
>
> The changes to druntime and phobos wouldn't depend on the compiler used, but it is difficult to test unless you have a compiler with working codegen, so that usually comes first.  You can go ahead and make changes to druntime- not much has to be done for phobos, as the idea is to encapsulate platform-specific code in druntime, though a minority of phobos does call platform-specific APIs- based on the spec or available headers, but you won't know if it will work well till you can run it.
>
>> Joakim - native on mobile is so much better (setting aside having to deal with Apple or Google)   but I guess the browser isn't going away on the desktop for a while yet.
>
> I'm actually a heavy web user, have been for almost a quarter-century (though I don't use webapps, mostly reading), which is why that chart was so surprising to me.  While native mobile apps are usually more responsive, they are not ideal for reading, as I'm not going to install and load up The Verge's app, or an app for every other news site, every time.
>
> The problem for the desktop browser is that the desktop is going away, as the linked tweet above shows.

No it is not. Linear extrapolation of an incomplete chart is almost always erroneous.

> I went from using a FreeBSD desktop and a dumbphone five years ago to an Android smartphone and two Android tablets today, ie no desktop or laptop since my ultrabook died late last year.  In my household, we went from using two smartphones, two PC laptops, and a Mac laptop four years ago to three smartphones, three Android tablets, and a Mac laptop today.
>
> This is a shift that is happening in most households, as a PC overserves most and a mobile device will do.  Many D users are power users who cling to old tech like the desktop and the web, so they are missing this massive wave going on right now.  I myself missed the death of the mobile web, as I'm such a heavy user.

still bwahahaha, web technology will stay a bit longer, panicking is a bit premature yet.

On Thursday, 3 November 2016 at 06:32:07 UTC, Patrick Schluter wrote:
> On Thursday, 3 November 2016 at 06:11:08 UTC, Joakim wrote:
>> On Sunday, 30 October 2016 at 10:04:02 UTC, Patrick Schluter wrote:
>>> On Sunday, 30 October 2016 at 06:39:42 UTC, Joakim wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It is not worth it, the web is dying.  I was stunned to see this chart of mobile web usage in the US:
>>>>
>>>> https://mobile.twitter.com/asymco/status/777915894659964928
>>>>
>>>> This isn't some third-world country with mostly 2G usage, the web numbers in those places are much worse. Combined with mobile passing even TV for time spent, there is no point in wasting time porting D to a dying platform.
>>>
>>> Yes, because outside of web on mobile nothing else exists... bwahahahah
>>
>> Pretty soon it won't:
>>
>> https://mobile.twitter.com/asymco/status/793401867053195264
>>
>
> Even that chart shows a flattening to an asymptote not a linear trend. This means desktop will maube go a little bit down but it won't disappear. What people often forget is that professional office PC will never be completely replaced by mobile.

Nothing is ever "completely replaced"- somebody somewhere is still using a mainframe or a UNIX workstation- but yes, PCs will basically disappear, just as you never see those old computers anymore.  Android 7.0 has a full multi-window mode, just dock your smartphone with a monitor and keyboard/mouse and start working:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/03/this-is-android-ns-freeform-window-mode/

Not all devices will come with that enabled, but you can enable it yourself on any 7.0 device:

http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/09/19/taskbar-updated-version-1-2-can-now-completely-replace-home-screen/

Now that mobile devices dominate the computing market, they are going after the legacy PC market too, by adding the remaining features needed.  Smartphones will replace the office PC, just like they have already killed off standalone mp3 players, GPS devices, handheld consoles, dumbphones, and so on.

> What also happens in that branch (i.e. in office environment) is still a continuation to replace PC application by browser applications. This means that still focussing on good web solutions server or client side is a good investment in any case.

More likely those PC apps will become mobile apps, like Office has done.

>> The problem for the desktop browser is that the desktop is going away, as the linked tweet above shows.
>
> No it is not. Linear extrapolation of an incomplete chart is almost always erroneous.

I pointed out a trend and extrapolated it continuing, but I never suggested it would be "linear."  I actually believe there will be a collapse in PC sales over the next decade, as the steady slide over the last five years will accelerate (see last graphic of 25% drop in Windows PC sales):

http://www.asymco.com/2016/11/02/wherefore-art-thou-macintosh/

Smartphones and tablets have gone after the marginal PC uses so far, ie around the home where they were overkill anyway, now they go after the core uses.

>> I went from using a FreeBSD desktop and a dumbphone five years ago to an Android smartphone and two Android tablets today, ie no desktop or laptop since my ultrabook died late last year.  In my household, we went from using two smartphones, two PC laptops, and a Mac laptop four years ago to three smartphones, three Android tablets, and a Mac laptop today.
>>
>> This is a shift that is happening in most households, as a PC overserves most and a mobile device will do.  Many D users are power users who cling to old tech like the desktop and the web, so they are missing this massive wave going on right now.
>>  I myself missed the death of the mobile web, as I'm such a heavy user.
>
> still bwahahaha, web technology will stay a bit longer, panicking is a bit premature yet.

It is already gone- look at the numbers- and I never said anything about "panicking," as I actually welcome the move.  The web was always decent for publishing and reading, but I have long thought it was a bad idea for them to turn it into an app platform, as I've said in this forum many times.  All tech lives and dies, the PC and the web are no different.

On 11/05/2016 02:00 AM, Joakim wrote:
>
> Nothing is ever "completely replaced"- somebody somewhere is still using
> a mainframe or a UNIX workstation- but yes, PCs will basically
> disappear, just as you never see those old computers anymore.  Android
> 7.0 has a full multi-window mode, just dock your smartphone with a
> monitor and keyboard/mouse and start working:
>
> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/03/this-is-android-ns-freeform-window-mode/
>

I'd hardly call that a "full" multi-window mode.

I've been (begrudgingly) using android on a daily basis for years now, and honestly, OS support for freeform windows is the least of what Android needs to be worthwhile as a PC replacement. Hell, even on the desktop, I usually have everything maximized anyway. Even with freeform windows, I'd sooner use *Win8*, of all things, on the desktop than fucking android.

There are four main areas that are currently making Android and absolute shit as a desktop replacement: The OS itself, the look&feel style guidelines, the entire 3rd party ecosystem, and the form factor. Ie, basically everything.

And the idea that plugging in a mouse, keyboard and monitor fixes the form factor issues is ludicrous, because seriously, compare that to them already just *being* there as with a laptop (yea, laptop keyboards and trackpads suck, but not remotely as badly as what's built-in on a smartphone/tablet). Or compared to, you know, not having to deal with a plugging in a hub, connecting all that shit, clumsily propping the stupid little thing up, OR bluetooth for that matter, because, let's be honest, fucking NOBODY other than us power users can figure out that obtuse "pairing" shit.

But it probably will take over anyway, because, let's face it, when the fuck has being complete and utter fucking shit ever stopped a computing tech from becoming a runaway success?: Windows, C++, Java2, Web-as-a-platform, JS/Ajax/Toolkit-overload, walled-garden services, zero-privacy private surveillance, non-tactile "touch"-screens, intrusive forced-update systems, removing-features-as-a-feature, widescreens for general computing purposes, iOS/Android "phones", etc. People are goddamned morons, and you know what? These motherfuckers DESERVE to have their privacy stolen, waste all their time futzing around with fucking broken software & devices, lose their data, and die while text-driving (or while letting GPS/Google drive their car, which mark my words, will be the next thing). I'd hope the whole fucking world burns, but it looks like I don't *need* to hope for that, it's pretty much guaranteed at this point anyway.

On Wednesday, 9 November 2016 at 16:00:45 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> On 11/05/2016 02:00 AM, Joakim wrote:
>>
>> Nothing is ever "completely replaced"- somebody somewhere is still using
>> a mainframe or a UNIX workstation- but yes, PCs will basically
>> disappear, just as you never see those old computers anymore.  Android
>> 7.0 has a full multi-window mode, just dock your smartphone with a
>> monitor and keyboard/mouse and start working:
>>
>> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/03/this-is-android-ns-freeform-window-mode/
>>
>
> But it probably will take over anyway, because, let's face it, when the fuck has being complete and utter fucking shit ever stopped a computing tech from becoming a runaway success?:

I don't believe that.

Software developers need a big machine, because these days you have to run a bunch of VMs to get anything done. Unless we migrate to Cloud-IDEs, we will use PCs in the foreseeable future and I don't see Cloud-IDEs happening.

Office Workers who are happy with MS Office alone could use Android. However, there is always this old internal app, which barely works on newer Windows versions. It will take a few decades until those are replaced.

Executives could move to pure mobile and probably already did. Reading reports and writing emails works well already.

I believe the PC is just as tenacious as the x86 architecture, which is still backwards compatible over the last three decades.

On Wednesday, 9 November 2016 at 16:00:45 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

> But it probably will take over anyway, because, let's face it, when the fuck has being complete and utter fucking shit ever stopped a computing tech from becoming a runaway success?: Windows, C++, Java2, Web-as-a-platform, JS/Ajax/Toolkit-overload, walled-garden services, zero-privacy private surveillance, non-tactile "touch"-screens, intrusive forced-update systems, removing-features-as-a-feature, widescreens for general computing purposes, iOS/Android "phones", etc. People are goddamned morons, and you know what? These motherfuckers DESERVE to have their privacy stolen, waste all their time futzing around with fucking broken software & devices, lose their data, and die while text-driving (or while letting GPS/Google drive their car, which mark my words, will be the next thing). I'd hope the whole fucking world burns, but it looks like I don't *need* to hope for that, it's pretty much guaranteed at this point anyway.

I've adopted this philosophy:

"Sit on the bank of a river and wait: Your enemy's corpse will soon float by."

I just sit and wait, and indeed Ajax and other technologies have been floating by ... Stick to what you know is good and don't jump on the latest bandwagon that happens to pass by. In terms of technology, you will save a lot of time, money and energy (no, I never "learned" Ajax:)

#ontwitterallday
#shitdidntseethattruck
#donttextanddrive

On Sunday, 30 October 2016 at 06:39:42 UTC, Joakim wrote:
> It is not worth it, the web is dying.  I was stunned to see this chart of mobile web usage in the US:
>
> https://mobile.twitter.com/asymco/status/777915894659964928

They just spend increasingly more time in twitter when not at home.

On 11/10/2016 05:14 AM, qznc wrote:
> On Wednesday, 9 November 2016 at 16:00:45 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>>
>> But it probably will take over anyway, because, let's face it, when
>> the fuck has being complete and utter fucking shit ever stopped a
>> computing tech from becoming a runaway success?:
>
> I don't believe that.
>
> Software developers need a big machine, because these days you have to
> run a bunch of VMs to get anything done. Unless we migrate to
> Cloud-IDEs, we will use PCs in the foreseeable future and I don't see
> Cloud-IDEs happening.
>
> Office Workers who are happy with MS Office alone could use Android.
> However, there is always this old internal app, which barely works on
> newer Windows versions. It will take a few decades until those are
> replaced.
>
> Executives could move to pure mobile and probably already did. Reading
> reports and writing emails works well already.
>
> I believe the PC is just as tenacious as the x86 architecture, which is
> still backwards compatible over the last three decades.

I hope you're right, because I definitely need to use an "old-fashioned" machine in order to get things done without wasting enormous time & effort.

But I've experienced this pattern far too many times to be confident in that:

- I use XYZ all the time, just like everyone else. It has a few things that could use improvement, and would be entirely feasible to fix, but for the most part works fine.

- Instead of XYZ's existing, easily solvable, problems actually BEING solved by those in a position to do so, somebody (maybe even the same people) comes out with UVW, with tons of fanfare because of one or two little things it does better. But, for the MOST part, UVW is total shit and vastly inferior to XYZ.

- UVW's hype begets more hype as people worldwide mistake hype (and "newness") for worthiness.

- Most people delude themselves into pretending UVW's downsides (compared to XYZ) don't exist, because after all, it's newer and has hype so therefore it's unquestionably better. Or, they just simply tolerate UVW's downsides, because, again, it's the hot new shit, so it MUST be the right tool for the job, right?

- Eventually, more and more people are forced to migrate from XYZ to UVW because of both market and industry pressures and because of XYZ becoming harder to obtain and getting less and less attention, shrinking ecosystem, etc.

- UVW marginalizes XYZ.

- A small faction of UVW users actually recognize UVW's downsides (or at least recognize there are "dinosaurs" who are holding out and must be converted for their own good). So the UVW folk make a half-assed amateur attempt to "fix" the downsides, only UVW still never actually reaches parity with XYZ. And why bother trying? XYZ's already been all but killed off.

I've seen it over, and over, and over. Unless people finally wise up and quit mistaking hype for worthiness (highly unlikely), I fear the same is poised to happen to PC's. I'm already forced to rely on these god-awful "modern" smartphones far more than I'd like to.

On Thursday, 10 November 2016 at 16:48:01 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

> I hope you're right, because I definitely need to use an "old-fashioned" machine in order to get things done without wasting enormous time & effort.
>
> [...]

Sit on the bank of a river and wait: Your enemy's corpse will soon float by.

On Friday, 11 November 2016 at 10:56:31 UTC, Chris wrote:
> On Thursday, 10 November 2016 at 16:48:01 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>
>> I hope you're right, because I definitely need to use an "old-fashioned" machine in order to get things done without wasting enormous time & effort.
>>
>> [...]
>
> Sit on the bank of a river and wait: Your enemy's corpse will soon float by.

I remember about 8, 9 years ago I warned that Apple was paying too much attention to the iPhone and that it was neglecting the Desktop/Laptop users. Who cares, right? I read about a year ago that Apple had a problem and sales were dropping, because they were neglecting their Desktop/Laptop users. Well, what can I say. I stopped using Apple years ago, because they became the same as (or worse than) MS. This whole App-store lock-in, the whole you-have-to-register-or-die-approach. F**k you! Enter Linux.

On Wednesday, 9 November 2016 at 16:00:45 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> On 11/05/2016 02:00 AM, Joakim wrote:
>>
>> Nothing is ever "completely replaced"- somebody somewhere is still using
>> a mainframe or a UNIX workstation- but yes, PCs will basically
>> disappear, just as you never see those old computers anymore.  Android
>> 7.0 has a full multi-window mode, just dock your smartphone with a
>> monitor and keyboard/mouse and start working:
>>
>> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/03/this-is-android-ns-freeform-window-mode/
>>
>
> I'd hardly call that a "full" multi-window mode.

Why?  Note that it has been fleshed out more since that March article, as that was a developer preview build of Android 7.0.

> I've been (begrudgingly) using android on a daily basis for years now, and honestly, OS support for freeform windows is the least of what Android needs to be worthwhile as a PC replacement. Hell, even on the desktop, I usually have everything maximized anyway. Even with freeform windows, I'd sooner use *Win8*, of all things, on the desktop than fucking android.
>
> There are four main areas that are currently making Android and absolute shit as a desktop replacement: The OS itself

linux is too stable for you? ;)

> the look&feel style guidelines

Eh, Material Design is fine.  It will evolve as people start using Android to get work done on larger LCD monitors.

> the entire 3rd party ecosystem

While there are a lot of Android apps, I agree that there are problems with the Play Store and its ecosystem, but nothing that can't be fixed on an open platform, that has the possibility to install competing app stores too.

> and the form factor. Ie, basically everything.

That's ridiculous.  There's no difference between docking your laptop at a KVM at your work desk or docking a smartphone instead.  The software on the smartphone is currently slower and doesn't have as many pro apps, but many will choose to use the smartphone they already have, rather than pay more for a desktop or laptop PC they don't need.

> And the idea that plugging in a mouse, keyboard and monitor fixes the form factor issues is ludicrous, because seriously, compare that to them already just *being* there as with a laptop (yea, laptop keyboards and trackpads suck, but not remotely as badly as what's built-in on a smartphone/tablet).

Obviously if you're docked and using a mouse, keyboard, and monitor, there is no difference of form factor.  On the go, you will have options like this, for just $100 more:

https://the-superbook-turn-your-smartphone-into-a-laptop-f.backerkit.com/hosted_preorders

I already have a smartphone.  If I want a laptop, I'll pay $100 and dock it.  If I want to work at a desk with a KVM switch, I have to buy the keyboard, mouse, and monitor regardless.  That is a cost and ubiquity advantage that the PC cannot match.

Point-and-shoot cameras and standalone GPS devices are still better than using your smartphone, but nobody buys them anymore because your smartphone is good enough and always with you.

> Or compared to, you know, not having to deal with a plugging in a hub, connecting all that shit, clumsily propping the stupid little thing up, OR bluetooth for that matter, because, let's be honest, fucking NOBODY other than us power users can figure out that obtuse "pairing" shit.

With USB-C, you will simply plug your phone into a dock connected to a KVM switch and go, you know, what you do with your laptop if you use it docked now.  Wireless protocols like Bluetooth and Miracast will eventually kill off all the wires, and be even easier.

> But it probably will take over anyway, because, let's face it, when the fuck has being complete and utter fucking shit ever stopped a computing tech from becoming a runaway success?: Windows, C++, Java2, Web-as-a-platform, JS/Ajax/Toolkit-overload, walled-garden services, zero-privacy private surveillance, non-tactile "touch"-screens, intrusive forced-update systems, removing-features-as-a-feature, widescreens for general computing purposes, iOS/Android "phones", etc.

That's a very mixed bag.  Yes, some of that tech was mediocre or a step backwards, but most people who were around in the golden age you admire get a lot more done on computing devices today.  Computers have become so powerful that they can make up for a lot of those dumb decisions.  We do need to weed out a lot of those mistakes over time though.

> People are goddamned morons, and you know what? These motherfuckers DESERVE to have their privacy stolen, waste all their time futzing around with fucking broken software & devices, lose their data, and die while text-driving (or while letting GPS/Google drive their car, which mark my words, will be the next thing). I'd hope the whole fucking world burns, but it looks like I don't *need* to hope for that, it's pretty much guaranteed at this point anyway.

I agree with most of those criticisms, but that's straying far afield from the smartphone killing off the PC and the web, which you have also lumped in with your list of bad tech.  So you like at least some of the changes mobile is bringing, even if you don't necessarily like some of the decisions made.  But mobile is dominant now and is the future for getting work done too; a lot of those problems will be fixed over time.

On Thursday, 10 November 2016 at 10:14:34 UTC, qznc wrote:
> I don't believe that.
>
> Software developers need a big machine, because these days you have to run a bunch of VMs to get anything done. Unless we migrate to Cloud-IDEs, we will use PCs in the foreseeable future and I don't see Cloud-IDEs happening.

They do?

http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/working-on-android/
http://decoding.io/using-ipad-pro-as-a-web-developer/

The vast majority of software developers don't have a "big machine," most don't do anything with VMs.  For those who have multi-minute or more builds, we will use the cloud a lot more than we do today, as that's one of the few places it makes sense.

> Office Workers who are happy with MS Office alone could use Android. However, there is always this old internal app, which barely works on newer Windows versions. It will take a few decades until those are replaced.

There will be emulators for those legacy apps until they're replaced, just as Apple provided for OS 9 when they switched to OS X.

> Executives could move to pure mobile and probably already did. Reading reports and writing emails works well already.
>
> I believe the PC is just as tenacious as the x86 architecture, which is still backwards compatible over the last three decades.

Both are declining, as the Asymco link I gave above showed, and will likely collapse into irrelevance soon.

On Thursday, 10 November 2016 at 10:45:26 UTC, Chris wrote:
> I've adopted this philosophy:
>
> "Sit on the bank of a river and wait: Your enemy's corpse will soon float by."
>
> I just sit and wait, and indeed Ajax and other technologies have been floating by ... Stick to what you know is good and don't jump on the latest bandwagon that happens to pass by. In terms of technology, you will save a lot of time, money and energy (no, I never "learned" Ajax:)

AJAX seemed promising when the alternative was desktop apps, but they went way overboard with HTML5 and mobile is displacing it.

On Thursday, 10 November 2016 at 12:37:59 UTC, Kagamin wrote:
> On Sunday, 30 October 2016 at 06:39:42 UTC, Joakim wrote:
>> It is not worth it, the web is dying.  I was stunned to see this chart of mobile web usage in the US:
>>
>> https://mobile.twitter.com/asymco/status/777915894659964928
>
> They just spend increasingly more time in twitter when not at home.

No, twitter is a small chunk and dropping, not to mention being available on the web too:

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/06/people-are-spending-much-less-time-on-social-media-apps-said-report.html

You're right that people waste a lot more time with social media on mobile, but the point is that they're increasingly not using PCs for that, and PC sales are dropping as a result.

On Thursday, 10 November 2016 at 16:48:01 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> I hope you're right, because I definitely need to use an "old-fashioned" machine in order to get things done without wasting enormous time & effort.

So I take it you're still running a UNIX workstation?  Or is it a Data General minicomputer? ;)

> But I've experienced this pattern far too many times to be confident in that:
>
> - I use XYZ all the time, just like everyone else. It has a few things that could use improvement, and would be entirely feasible to fix, but for the most part works fine.
>
> - Instead of XYZ's existing, easily solvable, problems actually BEING solved by those in a position to do so, somebody (maybe even the same people) comes out with UVW, with tons of fanfare because of one or two little things it does better. But, for the MOST part, UVW is total shit and vastly inferior to XYZ.
>
> - UVW's hype begets more hype as people worldwide mistake hype (and "newness") for worthiness.
>
> - Most people delude themselves into pretending UVW's downsides (compared to XYZ) don't exist, because after all, it's newer and has hype so therefore it's unquestionably better. Or, they just simply tolerate UVW's downsides, because, again, it's the hot new shit, so it MUST be the right tool for the job, right?
>
> - Eventually, more and more people are forced to migrate from XYZ to UVW because of both market and industry pressures and because of XYZ becoming harder to obtain and getting less and less attention, shrinking ecosystem, etc.
>
> - UVW marginalizes XYZ.
>
> - A small faction of UVW users actually recognize UVW's downsides (or at least recognize there are "dinosaurs" who are holding out and must be converted for their own good). So the UVW folk make a half-assed amateur attempt to "fix" the downsides, only UVW still never actually reaches parity with XYZ. And why bother trying? XYZ's already been all but killed off.
>
> I've seen it over, and over, and over. Unless people finally wise up and quit mistaking hype for worthiness (highly unlikely), I fear the same is poised to happen to PC's. I'm already forced to rely on these god-awful "modern" smartphones far more than I'd like to.

You do realize that the PC was once the "vastly inferior" alternative to UNIX workstations? :) I don't disagree that there's a hype cycle and that the new entrant is initially worse.  There's a name for that, it's called disruption:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruptive_innovation

Other than that, what you're describing is that the mass market doesn't care for niche features that early adopters want.  If you're in that niche, great, somebody will make an expensive, superior option for you.  You expressed interest in the Ubuntu phone before, there will always be a niche that serves your needs better.

On Friday, 11 November 2016 at 11:15:10 UTC, Chris wrote:
> On Friday, 11 November 2016 at 10:56:31 UTC, Chris wrote:
>> On Thursday, 10 November 2016 at 16:48:01 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>>
>>> I hope you're right, because I definitely need to use an "old-fashioned" machine in order to get things done without wasting enormous time & effort.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>
>> Sit on the bank of a river and wait: Your enemy's corpse will soon float by.
>
> I remember about 8, 9 years ago I warned that Apple was paying too much attention to the iPhone and that it was neglecting the Desktop/Laptop users. Who cares, right? I read about a year ago that Apple had a problem and sales were dropping, because they were neglecting their Desktop/Laptop users. Well, what can I say. I stopped using Apple years ago, because they became the same as (or worse than) MS. This whole App-store lock-in, the whole you-have-to-register-or-die-approach. F**k you! Enter Linux.

Read the Asymco Mac link I gave above, Mac sales and revenue have been inching up for years.  Apple has around 25-30% profit share in the desktop/laptop market, despite selling many less devices, just as they just took 100% of the profits in the smartphone sector last quarter, despite selling only 15% of them:

http://fortune.com/2016/11/04/apple-smartphone-profits/

They are not anywhere close to dying: they are the largest, most successful company on the planet.  I agree that that cannot last, partially because they are so closed as you say, but so far it is one of the reasons for their success.  Reports are that the recent Pro laptops, that some pros are complaining about, are selling better than ever.

Most consumers want a dumbed-down, locked-down computing device.  Apple goes too far in that direction, and that will eventually hurt them, but the overall trend is towards giving the masses what they want.