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October 25, 2022
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On Tuesday, 25 October 2022 at 10:18:53 UTC, German Diago wrote:

>

My advice would to sell D as an industrial language that can be incrementally adopted from C++ with safety and compatibility guarantees, besides the metaprogramming, beyond what the competition can achieve.

I am very satisfied with the current D!

D just needs some time to prove itself.

BetterC or better interfacing 'C++' is a good idea!

October 25, 2022
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On Tuesday, 25 October 2022 at 10:51:48 UTC, zjh wrote:

>

BetterC or better interfacing 'C++' is a good idea!

I think 'D' can be the companion language of 'C++'.
For example, as 'C++' implements coroutines, 'D' does not need to implement it again.
As long as D can interface C++ very well, then, for users, When it's time to use 'D', use 'D'. When it's time to use 'C++', use 'C++'. Isn't it very cool?

October 25, 2022
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On Tuesday, 25 October 2022 at 11:09:38 UTC, zjh wrote:

>

On Tuesday, 25 October 2022 at 10:51:48 UTC, zjh wrote:

>

BetterC or better interfacing 'C++' is a good idea!

 >

I think 'D' can be the companion language of 'C++'.

Maybe one day, someone will come out with a book called 'D for C++ Programmers' to talk specifically about interfacing 'C++'.
Yes, you don't have to give up your 'C++' skills.

October 25, 2022
Gravatar of Alexandru ErmicioiPosted by Alexandru Ermicioi
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On Tuesday, 25 October 2022 at 11:09:38 UTC, zjh wrote:

>

I think 'D' can be the companion language of 'C++'.
For example, as 'C++' implements coroutines, 'D' does not need to implement it again.
As long as D can interface C++ very well, then, for users, When it's time to use 'D', use 'D'. When it's time to use 'C++', use 'C++'. Isn't it very cool?

Nope, its not cool. There are people that know D and not C++, since everyone's background is different. Having to learn two new languages is just waste of time, I'd rather just learn C++ and do everything in there if it is the case.

Now, it is indeed good to have C++ interop, but being a companion of C++, is a no go imho.

Best regards,
Alexandru.

October 25, 2022
Gravatar of German DiagoPosted by German Diago
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On Tuesday, 25 October 2022 at 15:29:27 UTC, Alexandru Ermicioi wrote:

>

On Tuesday, 25 October 2022 at 11:09:38 UTC, zjh wrote:

>

I think 'D' can be the companion language of 'C++'.
For example, as 'C++' implements coroutines, 'D' does not need to implement it again.
As long as D can interface C++ very well, then, for users, When it's time to use 'D', use 'D'. When it's time to use 'C++', use 'C++'. Isn't it very cool?

Nope, its not cool. There are people that know D and not C++, since everyone's background is different. Having to learn two new languages is just waste of time, I'd rather just learn C++ and do everything in there if it is the case.

FWIW, D is a language. I would not advocate for or against anything. But the
highest chance of success for languages is compatibility to consume the old
code bases, that for sure, at least in the big picture.

  • Kotlin -> compatible with Java
  • Swift -> interoperable with Objective-C
  • C -> C++

I did not see a clean-cut language that got popular yet for real use in a considerable amount of places. Namely, compatibility is a feature. How deep is the big question and the devil is in the details: source-compatible? API/ABI? Etc. but throwing away and rewriting is not even realistic.

October 25, 2022
Gravatar of Alexandru ErmicioiPosted by Alexandru Ermicioi
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On Tuesday, 25 October 2022 at 17:07:34 UTC, German Diago wrote:

>

FWIW, D is a language. I would not advocate for or against anything. But the
highest chance of success for languages is compatibility to consume the old
code bases, that for sure, at least in the big picture.

  • Kotlin -> compatible with Java
  • Swift -> interoperable with Objective-C
  • C -> C++

I did not see a clean-cut language that got popular yet for real use in a considerable amount of places. Namely, compatibility is a feature. How deep is the big question and the devil is in the details: source-compatible? API/ABI? Etc. but throwing away and rewriting is not even realistic.

It is fine, if you have high compatibility with other languages, but I'm against it being a companion of another language, which implies that one without another cannot work.

October 26, 2022
Gravatar of zjhPosted by zjh
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On Tuesday, 25 October 2022 at 17:34:10 UTC, Alexandru Ermicioi wrote:

> >

I did not see a clean-cut language that got popular yet for real use in a considerable amount of places. Namely, compatibility is a feature. How deep is the big question and the devil is in the details: source-compatible? API/ABI? Etc. but throwing away and rewriting is not even realistic.

It is fine, if you have high
compatibility with other
languages, but I'm against it being a companion of another language, which implies that one without another cannot work.

Many people have studied C++ for 10 years or 20 years.C++ comes out very early. There are many C++ related libraries. The latestC++ is also good. It also has some functions and convenience that D does not provide.
The same is true of D. D also has shortcomings, such as default GC. For me, I can take the advantage of both. If C++and D interact well, it is very convenient to pick the two languages's advantage!
C++ has a large user base. Many people start learning languages from C++.
It is not difficult to switch from C++ to D. The basic concepts are similar.
Because many of the latest things in C++ are already in D.
D,Being a partner language.
It is best to use 'C++' and 'D' at the same time.

October 25, 2022
Gravatar of Ali ÇehreliPosted by Ali Çehreli
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On 10/25/22 17:53, zjh wrote:

> `D` also has shortcomings, such as` default` GC.

What you mean is languages can have different features that a programmer can see advantages to use at different parts of a program. I agree.

However, please note that "shortcoming" is purely a negative term, which does not match reality: D's default GC happens to be a strength. I take advantage of it in all of my programs.

I am saying the above with full understanding that there are programmers out there who were educated in C++ circles and are sure that garbage collectors are for inferior languages. That is a shortcoming of their education.

Ali
October 26, 2022
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On Wednesday, 26 October 2022 at 01:06:27 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:

>

I am saying the above with full understanding that there are programmers out there who were educated in C++ circles and are sure that garbage collectors are for inferior languages. That is a shortcoming of their education.

Ali

Well, this is just a personal opinion.
Of course, maybe due to I can't make good use of it now.

October 26, 2022
Gravatar of ArunPosted by Arun
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On Wednesday, 26 October 2022 at 01:06:27 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:

>

On 10/25/22 17:53, zjh wrote:

 >

I am saying the above with full understanding that there are programmers out there who were educated in C++ circles and are sure that garbage collectors are for inferior languages. That is a shortcoming of their education.

For short running tools and low volume stuff, yes, GC is good.

My practical experience running vibe.d service with GC in production: default GC is a bane. Default should've been @nogc.

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