So are there any free ebooks out there for D or is this language still considered to be too new? And if there aren't what's a decent book to pick up, something the covers all the concepts fairly in depth?

soup2nuts wrote:
> So are there any free ebooks out there for D or is this language still considered to be too new? And if there aren't what's a decent book to pick up, something the covers all the concepts fairly in depth?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590599608?ie=UTF8&tag=thelazpro-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1590599608

Or you can just check the online documentation for D and tango. It should take about 30min max to start programming in D if you know C/c++/whatever.

On Fri, 09 May 2008 21:57:22 -0400, bob wrote:

> soup2nuts Wrote:
> 
>> So are there any free ebooks out there for D or is this language still considered to be too new? And if there aren't what's a decent book to pick up, something the covers all the concepts fairly in depth?
> < torrent link removed >


Except that the tango book is not free; and thus, it seems quite baffling that you would post this torrent.

It's a shame that people do this without permission. I'm especially surprised people do this in the very forum in which the authors participate. Kind of a slap in their face, really.

-JJR

John Reimer Wrote:

> On Fri, 09 May 2008 21:57:22 -0400, bob wrote:
> 
> > soup2nuts Wrote:
> > 
> >> So are there any free ebooks out there for D or is this language still considered to be too new? And if there aren't what's a decent book to pick up, something the covers all the concepts fairly in depth?
> > < torrent link removed >
> 
> 
> Except that the tango book is not free; and thus, it seems quite baffling that you would post this torrent.
> 
> It's a shame that people do this without permission. I'm especially surprised people do this in the very forum in which the authors participate. Kind of a slap in their face, really.
> 
> -JJR
> 
Free is a state of mind with some people not a real principal
You take free code and  advice but when it does not suit  then you say ""it should not be free""?

Point is ,it is available free and it would be LYING to say it isn't ,or, to avoid saying it is. Either is a lie

soup2nuts wrote:
> So are there any free ebooks out there for D or is this language still considered to be too new? And if there aren't what's a decent book to pick up, something the covers all the concepts fairly in depth?

http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?Books__and__Papers

-Joel

Manfred Nowak wrote:

> John Reimer wrote:
> 
>> I'm especially surprised people do this in the very forum in which the authors participate.  Kind of a slap in their face, really.
> 
> Some years ago my statement of intent to bind executables to specific hardware was arraigned here.
> 
> I wonder how you would call that arraigning, when considering your statement above. For this please observe, that printing a book is also binding some intellectual property to some specific hardware.
> 
> Please observe further, that the owners of the website holding the torrent promise to remove torrents for copyrighted files from their website on request of the copyright holder. I believe that no one is allowed to criticize a decision of copyright holders to take no action on beeing informed of a possible copyright breach. Especially is an information on a possible copyright breach no slap in the face of holder of the copyright.

If someone provided us with such information in private communication (which is easy to accomplish), then this would be true. Bob did however provide the information in a public forum, and did in a followup show that he thinks such breaches of copyright are ok.

-- 
Lars Ivar Igesund
blog at http://larsivi.net
DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi
Dancing the Tango

None here seem to see the real issue, IMO.
The torrent by itself should not be illegal. The true issue is the
copyright of the authors (please DON'T use the term intellectual
property since it's a term invited by the RIAA to spread FUD and has NO
real legal meaning).
What I want to ask is: Had I downloaded the book via the above torrent
and than sent a paycheck to the authors, would I still be violating the
copyright?
The issue is not people using torrents to download ebooks (which they
could do simply because they prefer this method of downloading). The
issue is people that do not respect the authors' copyright and violate
the law.
In the same way you can go to a library and use a copy-machine, thus
violating the copy-right of authors, that doesn't mean we should
disallow libraries.

I do see the problem in the above idealized argument, but the problem is that the current situation was created by the very organizations who represent content creators like the RIAA and MPAA. They have cultivated this culture of disrespect towards the content creators via their disrespect towards the users of the content and via their DRM schemes. trust and respect goes both ways. This is why in free-software communities copy-rights are always respected (via mutual respect and trust instead of fear and DRM).

--Yigal

On Sat, 10 May 2008 06:21:57 +0000, Manfred Nowak wrote:

> John Reimer wrote:
> 
>> I'm especially surprised people do this in the very forum in which the authors participate.  Kind of a slap in their face, really.
> 
> Some years ago my statement of intent to bind executables to specific hardware was arraigned here.
> 
> I wonder how you would call that arraigning, when considering your statement above. For this please observe, that printing a book is also binding some intellectual property to some specific hardware.
> 
> Please observe further, that the owners of the website holding the torrent promise to remove torrents for copyrighted files from their website on request of the copyright holder. I believe that no one is allowed to criticize a decision of copyright holders to take no action on beeing informed of a possible copyright breach. Especially is an information on a possible copyright breach no slap in the face of holder of the copyright.
> 
> -manfred


Manfred,

Once again, my post did not approach the topic of drm or copyright holding.  It referred to common courtesy, respect for investment of work done under the terms it was completed.  Posting such a link is not helpful, useful or respectful to it's authors, unless the authors have given express permission to do so.  Even opensource operates under similar principles of courtesy.  And indeed, litigation can and may occur if the opensource licenses aren't followed.  It that sense even opensource "freedom" comes with it's own set of controls.

I see, though, that the demand for a subjective "freedom" that fits each persons ideals, is becoming more the cultural norm.  I sorry to see this because it lacks consistancy and respect for a persons contributions.

-JJR

On Sat, 10 May 2008 01:35:02 -0400, bob wrote:

> John Reimer Wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 09 May 2008 21:57:22 -0400, bob wrote:
>> 
>> > soup2nuts Wrote:
>> > 
>> >> So are there any free ebooks out there for D or is this language still considered to be too new? And if there aren't what's a decent book to pick up, something the covers all the concepts fairly in depth?
>> > < torrent link removed >
>> 
>> 
>> Except that the tango book is not free; and thus, it seems quite baffling that you would post this torrent.
>> 
>> It's a shame that people do this without permission. I'm especially surprised people do this in the very forum in which the authors participate. Kind of a slap in their face, really.
>> 
>> -JJR
>> 
> Free is a state of mind with some people not a real principal You take free code and  advice but when it does not suit  then you say ""it should not be free""?
> 
> Point is ,it is available free and it would be LYING to say it isn't ,or, to avoid saying it is. Either is a lie


Have you considered that it might be lying to pretend that avoiding a lie is your motivation for posting the link? People may find it for themselves without your help, so you are doing no good service.  By NOT posting this, you neatly avoid the risk of hurting or disrepecting the authors who invested their personal time and money into this work.

Please leave the choice of being benevolent in the hands of the authors. It is attitudes like yours that may actually destroy motivation for contributing to Tango and other works. Or do you not know that the profits of this book help support the hundreds of hours that go into Tango developement and maintenance?

-JJR

On Sat, 10 May 2008 10:00:21 +0000, Manfred Nowak wrote:

> Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
> 
>> If someone provided us with such information in private communication (which is easy to accomplish), then this would be true.
> 
> I disagree.
> 
> If someone has the (legal) (co-)ownership of some information, which is believed to be not in common knowledge, then only in rare circumstances one has the right to restrict the channel of distributions for that information.
> 
> Without this principle you would not have been able to publish your book. But the same principle holds for Bob and his information of existing torrents.
> 
> 
>> did in a followup show that he thinks such breaches of copyright are ok.
> 
> I disagree. To me his statements do not expose such a thinking.
> 
> He only emphasizes the pure fact, that there exists a free _torrent_ for _some_ ebook, which looks like to be the one of you and your colleagues. Bob did not give any clue, that the "advertized" ebook is indeed that of you and your colleagues.
> 
> Furthermore it seems to be unknown, where Bob resides and therefore it is pure speculation that he might be bound to some copyright laws.
> 
> -manfred

I think this is silly, manfred .  You are getting all technical over the details.  It appears you are defending Bob's "freedom" to post the link and disregarding the actual /effect/ of his post, which really is what is important here.  Wouldn't it be better to consider the effect than to baffle ourselves over the legality of the medium?  DRM, intellectual property, and copyright will always have muddy waters because of their very nature... but why don't we just keep it simple and recognize the need for respect of the author's work.  It's likely the authors would have to "buy" the book to give it away, so perhaps the readers should too?

Honestly, if nobody says something against this habit, this forum will eventually be overwhelmed by this very mentality: each person decides for himself what's free.  The inconsistancy among the definitions of freedom will eventually completely cripple the interactions across cultures. Perhaps that just the way it has to go, but I think it's pretty simple just to respect the authors work and keep such links out of this public forum.

-JJR