May 17, 2023

On Sunday, 14 May 2023 at 16:13:37 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

>

What you can do

Follow my planning updates. Keep an eye on the goals and task lists once they're published. Tell us when you think we're getting it right. Tell us when you think we're getting it wrong. Tell us your ideas. The planning sessions are not a replacement for the monthly and quarterly meetings. If you're using D in production, commercially or free, I'm happy to bring you into the quarterly meetings. And anyone is welcome to join us for one or more monthly meetings to contribute ideas and feedback.

We appreciate your initiatives for we have grown up with His teachings. I am IVY far away as you are far from Mevlana. The only point between us is the codes...

I want D to generalize around me. It doesn't make any sense to me after I don't see what it is done on the codes. If things to do will popularize D, why not! Good luck.

SDB@79

May 17, 2023
On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 at 14:56:15 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
>
> I promise, everyone will learn more about IVY as we go along. ...

This statement precisely sums up the problem.

First, that IVY has been so much a part of your discussions, and yet, nobody has a clue as to what it actually is - not even those who participated, it seems.

Second, IVY is about turning inwards, towards the so called 'self', in order to find something (apparently) that will help the D project move forward. That sounds aireee..faireee to me in itself (even if it has some substance).

Third, I really do NOT want to learn more about IVY. Not in the D forums, nor at DConf.

By making IVY so important to the D project, you are inhernetly dividing people -> those who believe in IVY -> and those that don't.

No more talk of this IVY nonsense please.

btw. I remain surprised that Walter hasn't already stamped this nonsense IVY talk out, to be honest. Maybe he's been converted as well?
May 17, 2023
On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 at 22:38:20 UTC, Theo wrote:
>

And btw. This is the kind of concrete actions that can move D forward (and yet, not a single comment about it??)

https://forum.dlang.org/thread/xnrpwnndvyrfnrjaksso@forum.dlang.org


May 17, 2023

On Sunday, 14 May 2023 at 16:13:37 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

>

Last week, in my post titled 'A New Era for the D Community', I announced that Ucora had taken us through IVY, their organizational development program, at no charge. In that thread and elsewhere, the announcement received some positive feedback. I also saw some questions raised and skeptical speculations made. I'll address the two biggest questions here, and then I'll provide a short summary of our first concrete steps toward the new era.

[...]

hmmm

May 18, 2023

On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 at 22:43:03 UTC, Theo wrote:

>

https://forum.dlang.org/thread/xnrpwnndvyrfnrjaksso@forum.dlang.org

It's not important whether there are comments or not, what's important is that we see the progress in D, which I think is more important than ivy.

May 18, 2023

On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 at 15:30:59 UTC, Don Allen wrote:

>

By leadership I mean that the top management of the project conveys a clear message of where the project is heading and the message is convincing to most of the people who will actually do the work.

The aim of our planning sessions right now is to lay the groundwork. We want to clearly define our immediate goals and establish an initial set of concrete goals for the future so that everyone can see what we're doing and where want want to go.

And yes, I know there's a lot more to it that, but that's where we're starting. Everything else builds on top of it.

May 17, 2023
On 5/17/23 12:57, ag0aep6g wrote:

> Of the people that I know participated (you, Dennis, Ali, and I'm
> assuming Walter, Atila, Andrei(?)), I trust Dennis's judgment the most.
> Him not being particularly excited by IVY suggests to me that it might
> not be the greatest thing since chocolate was invented.

For the record, I've never indicated here whether I was excited about IVY or not.

Ali

May 18, 2023
On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 at 21:24:18 UTC, Salih Dincer wrote:
> [His](https://mevlanafoundation.com/mevlana-his-works/) I am IVY far away as you are far from Mevlana.



SDB@79


May 18, 2023

On Thursday, 18 May 2023 at 07:02:35 UTC, Salih Dincer wrote:

>

On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 at 21:24:18 UTC, Salih Dincer wrote:
I am IVY far away as you are
far from Mevlana.

Pardon...

As much as you are far from Mevlana teaching, I am far from IVY.

SDB@79

May 18, 2023
On Thursday, 18 May 2023 at 07:04:37 UTC, Salih Dincer wrote:
> On Thursday, 18 May 2023 at 07:02:35 UTC, Salih Dincer wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 at 21:24:18 UTC, Salih Dincer wrote:
>> I am IVY far away as you are
>> far from Mevlana.
>
> Pardon...
>
> As much as you are far from [Mevlana](https://mevlanafoundation.com/mevlana-his-works/) teaching, I am far from IVY.
>
> SDB@79

Yes, Rumi theology does seem a long way from IVY theology ;-)

IVY seems to have a very strong focus on reclaiming "ownership of the self", and concepts such as individualism, autonomy and free will.

I'm unconvinced of the validity of their 'social cooperativeness based on individualism' theory.

Where is the data to support this theory?

I'd like to point out also, that the 'western' experiment, of social cooperativeness based on individualism, is still very much an experiment inplay.

I'd argue, that experiment is not going all that well (particularly in some countries more than others).

There is also international evidence that suggests, that individualism has lead to a more severe COVID-19 situation:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01124-5

But will we all be better of if we instead try to become that which cannot come into the imagination?

Not sure about that theory either.

Personally, I've always preferred the Nike theory: Just do it!

If we want to see progress, like you suggest, then the Nike theory is worth a try ;-)

Give it a try yourselves. (Hopefully, you won't need to spend 14 weeks working out how to.. Just do it! )