On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 at 14:56:15 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
>
> I promise, everyone will learn more about IVY as we go along. ...

This statement precisely sums up the problem.

First, that IVY has been so much a part of your discussions, and yet, nobody has a clue as to what it actually is - not even those who participated, it seems.

Second, IVY is about turning inwards, towards the so called 'self', in order to find something (apparently) that will help the D project move forward. That sounds aireee..faireee to me in itself (even if it has some substance).

Third, I really do NOT want to learn more about IVY. Not in the D forums, nor at DConf.

By making IVY so important to the D project, you are inhernetly dividing people -> those who believe in IVY -> and those that don't.

No more talk of this IVY nonsense please.

btw. I remain surprised that Walter hasn't already stamped this nonsense IVY talk out, to be honest. Maybe he's been converted as well?

On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 at 22:38:20 UTC, Theo wrote:
>

And btw. This is the kind of concrete actions that can move D forward (and yet, not a single comment about it??)

https://forum.dlang.org/thread/xnrpwnndvyrfnrjaksso@forum.dlang.org

On 5/17/23 12:57, ag0aep6g wrote:

> Of the people that I know participated (you, Dennis, Ali, and I'm
> assuming Walter, Atila, Andrei(?)), I trust Dennis's judgment the most.
> Him not being particularly excited by IVY suggests to me that it might
> not be the greatest thing since chocolate was invented.

For the record, I've never indicated here whether I was excited about IVY or not.

Ali

On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 at 21:24:18 UTC, Salih Dincer wrote:
> [His](https://mevlanafoundation.com/mevlana-his-works/) I am IVY far away as you are far from Mevlana.



SDB@79

On Thursday, 18 May 2023 at 07:04:37 UTC, Salih Dincer wrote:
> On Thursday, 18 May 2023 at 07:02:35 UTC, Salih Dincer wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 at 21:24:18 UTC, Salih Dincer wrote:
>> I am IVY far away as you are
>> far from Mevlana.
>
> Pardon...
>
> As much as you are far from [Mevlana](https://mevlanafoundation.com/mevlana-his-works/) teaching, I am far from IVY.
>
> SDB@79

Yes, Rumi theology does seem a long way from IVY theology ;-)

IVY seems to have a very strong focus on reclaiming "ownership of the self", and concepts such as individualism, autonomy and free will.

I'm unconvinced of the validity of their 'social cooperativeness based on individualism' theory.

Where is the data to support this theory?

I'd like to point out also, that the 'western' experiment, of social cooperativeness based on individualism, is still very much an experiment inplay.

I'd argue, that experiment is not going all that well (particularly in some countries more than others).

There is also international evidence that suggests, that individualism has lead to a more severe COVID-19 situation:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01124-5

But will we all be better of if we instead try to become that which cannot come into the imagination?

Not sure about that theory either.

Personally, I've always preferred the Nike theory: Just do it!

If we want to see progress, like you suggest, then the Nike theory is worth a try ;-)

Give it a try yourselves. (Hopefully, you won't need to spend 14 weeks working out how to.. Just do it! )