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Cppfront : A new syntax for C++
Sep 17
Tejas
Sep 17
ryuukk_
Sep 17
Tejas
Sep 17
Tejas
Sep 18
Tejas
Sep 18
IGotD-
Sep 19
Dukc
Sep 17
ryuukk_
Sep 17
claptrap
Sep 17
IGotD-
Sep 18
zjh
6 days ago
German Diago
Sep 19
ryuukk_
Sep 19
Ben Jones
Sep 20
Tejas
September 17

https://github.com/hsutter/cppfront

People working towards syntax improvements as well to C++ now, which they believe will pave the way for semantic improvements that break backwards compatibility with C++

Taken from the repo:

>

Important disclaimer: This isn't about 'just a pretty syntax,' it's about fixing semantics. The unambiguous alternative syntax is just a means to an end, a gateway that lets us access a new open space beyond it — and sure, if we build a gate, then the gate ought to look nice too, so we build it with good boards and paint it nice colors. But the gate is the doorway, the portal, not the goal... the real payoff is gaining access to that new open space in C++ that's free of backward source compatibility constraints where we can (finally) fix semantics — order-independence, great defaults, regular composable semantic meanings — as we see fit.

September 17

On Saturday, 17 September 2022 at 11:08:37 UTC, Tejas wrote:

>

https://github.com/hsutter/cppfront

People working towards syntax improvements as well to C++ now, which they believe will pave the way for semantic improvements that break backwards compatibility with C++

Taken from the repo:

>

Important disclaimer: This isn't about 'just a pretty syntax,' it's about fixing semantics. The unambiguous alternative syntax is just a means to an end, a gateway that lets us access a new open space beyond it — and sure, if we build a gate, then the gate ought to look nice too, so we build it with good boards and paint it nice colors. But the gate is the doorway, the portal, not the goal... the real payoff is gaining access to that new open space in C++ that's free of backward source compatibility constraints where we can (finally) fix semantics — order-independence, great defaults, regular composable semantic meanings — as we see fit.

That's great to hear, C++ is a giant and uncontrollable mess

Already looks better than Carbon

How funny: https://github.com/hsutter/cppfront#2021-is-as-and-pattern-matching

https://github.com/dlang/vision-document#other (in #other, unfortunately)

September 17

On Saturday, 17 September 2022 at 11:41:18 UTC, ryuukk_ wrote:

>

On Saturday, 17 September 2022 at 11:08:37 UTC, Tejas wrote:

>

https://github.com/hsutter/cppfront

People working towards syntax improvements as well to C++ now, which they believe will pave the way for semantic improvements that break backwards compatibility with C++

Taken from the repo:

>

[...]

That's great to hear, C++ is a giant and uncontrollable mess

Already looks better than Carbon

How funny: https://github.com/hsutter/cppfront#2021-is-as-and-pattern-matching

https://github.com/dlang/vision-document#other (in #other, unfortunately)

I'm just worried about D's place in this world where there's Carbon, C++26, Rust, Nim and now this 😔

September 17

On Saturday, 17 September 2022 at 11:55:16 UTC, Tejas wrote:

>

On Saturday, 17 September 2022 at 11:41:18 UTC, ryuukk_ wrote:

>

On Saturday, 17 September 2022 at 11:08:37 UTC, Tejas wrote:

>

https://github.com/hsutter/cppfront

People working towards syntax improvements as well to C++ now, which they believe will pave the way for semantic improvements that break backwards compatibility with C++

Taken from the repo:

>

[...]

That's great to hear, C++ is a giant and uncontrollable mess

Already looks better than Carbon

How funny: https://github.com/hsutter/cppfront#2021-is-as-and-pattern-matching

https://github.com/dlang/vision-document#other (in #other, unfortunately)

I'm just worried about D's place in this world where there's Carbon, C++26, Rust, Nim and now this 😔

You forgot about:

Also how Go, Java, C#, F# are improving their low level coding features (and AOT story in Java/.NET case), so that their need for C and C++ gets reduced.

With Val, Carbon and now Cppfront coming out of the C++ community itself, we are at an inflection point, I bet C++26 might be the latest big revision.

So yeah, the competition to D is getting stiffer, and it is a question of how many of those C++ disillusioned souls might eventually find a home in D.

September 17

On Saturday, 17 September 2022 at 11:08:37 UTC, Tejas wrote:

>

https://github.com/hsutter/cppfront

People working towards syntax improvements as well to C++ now, which they believe will pave the way for semantic improvements that break backwards compatibility with C++

When C++ compile times aren't long enough, let's make them longer.

My first question that comes to mind, why compile this to C++ when you have C which is much faster and you can do the same thing. Essentially this is what Nim does which has full meta programming that can be compiled to C.

C++, isn't holding up anymore and is too simple let's make C++11
Let's make C++11 modern -> C++20
C++20 has a complicated and ugly syntax, let's fix that with CppFront.
... and it just goes on, taint it up, taint it up.

Even more funny is that this is from Herb Sutter which is one of the biggest influencers of "modern C++".

September 17

On Saturday, 17 September 2022 at 11:55:16 UTC, Tejas wrote:

>

On Saturday, 17 September 2022 at 11:41:18 UTC, ryuukk_ wrote:

>

On Saturday, 17 September 2022 at 11:08:37 UTC, Tejas wrote:

>

https://github.com/hsutter/cppfront

People working towards syntax improvements as well to C++ now, which they believe will pave the way for semantic improvements that break backwards compatibility with C++

Taken from the repo:

>

[...]

That's great to hear, C++ is a giant and uncontrollable mess

Already looks better than Carbon

How funny: https://github.com/hsutter/cppfront#2021-is-as-and-pattern-matching

https://github.com/dlang/vision-document#other (in #other, unfortunately)

I'm just worried about D's place in this world where there's Carbon, C++26, Rust, Nim and now this 😔

Indeed, simply asking for .Enum was met with negativity, so i don't see our fate improving anytime soon

September 17

On Saturday, 17 September 2022 at 17:47:57 UTC, ryuukk_ wrote:

>

Indeed, simply asking for .Enum was met with negativity, so i don't see our fate improving anytime soon

Language design is about trade-offs, expect people to disagree about things. That doesn't mean it's not worth trying to make improvements. There is a DIP PR for $member (.member is ambiguous).

September 17

On Saturday, 17 September 2022 at 14:57:40 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:

>

On Saturday, 17 September 2022 at 11:55:16 UTC, Tejas wrote:

>

On Saturday, 17 September 2022 at 11:41:18 UTC, ryuukk_ wrote:

>

[...]

I'm just worried about D's place in this world where there's Carbon, C++26, Rust, Nim and now this 😔

You forgot about:

Also how Go, Java, C#, F# are improving their low level coding features (and AOT story in Java/.NET case), so that their need for C and C++ gets reduced.

With Val, Carbon and now Cppfront coming out of the C++ community itself, we are at an inflection point, I bet C++26 might be the latest big revision.

So yeah, the competition to D is getting stiffer, and it is a question of how many of those C++ disillusioned souls might eventually find a home in D.

Val and Verona are extremely early stage though, no? But that might not be the case ~2025...

Didn't know Odin was already getting used in industry, pretty cool...

Hope we manage to get our stuff together and not just survive, but thrive in this decade

September 17

On Saturday, 17 September 2022 at 14:57:40 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:

>

With Val, Carbon and now Cppfront coming out of the C++ community itself, we are at an inflection point, I bet C++26 might be the latest big revision.

I don't know. I think C++ has become fairly well-rounded now that clang is catching up on C++20. At this point it will take a while for the C++ community to make good use of C++'s take on coroutines and concepts. It would probably be a bad idea to continue to push in more big features. Some smaller ones like SIMD are missing still. But in the longer term I think we will see more standardized hardware oriented features related to parallelism, co-processors etc. I suspect Intel and AMD will have to do something to ensure their own relevance in the long term, and C/C++ is where they can make software "hardware dependent". So in that sense C/C++ has a guaranteed long life span. System programming isn't just market driven, it is also hardware driven.

September 17

On Saturday, 17 September 2022 at 11:55:16 UTC, Tejas wrote:

>

On Saturday, 17 September 2022 at 11:41:18 UTC, ryuukk_ wrote:

>

On Saturday, 17 September 2022 at 11:08:37 UTC, Tejas wrote:

>

https://github.com/hsutter/cppfront

https://github.com/dlang/vision-document#other (in #other, unfortunately)

I'm just worried about D's place in this world where there's Carbon, C++26, Rust, Nim and now this 😔

It'll be ironic if the thing that Walter said will kill C actually ends up killing D cause it basically put everything else on the back burner for 10 years.

Is DIP1000 the new Phobos vs Tango?

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