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Plan for D
May 13
dogman
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May 13

Question to the core team. Whats the plan and roadmap for D ?
a. are we planning to keep D just as a hobby language or a real contender for industry use. Despite being complex, rust has started to get adopted in industries. Whats our plan ?

b. When are we planning to focus on memory safety and use that as our strength

c. Will we ever make D as both a GC and non GC language. So that it can be used across control plane, data plane, kernel. I know betterC, but could we make it more easy and accessible common public to able to use phobos. I know people say 95% is done etc.

d. Why there are no working groups for tooling, webframeworks, performance, compiler etc so that we can improve on each area.

e. Why is weka not sponsoring ? why are we not advertising that the fastest filesystem is made in D ?

f. D has all properties to make it a good language. But needs more work and marketing. Why cant we make D as a safe and fast extension to C++ & python

May 13

On Thursday, 13 May 2021 at 20:57:13 UTC, dogman wrote:

>

c. Will we ever make D as both a GC and non GC language. So that it can be used across control plane, data plane, kernel. I know betterC, but could we make it more easy and accessible common public to able to use phobos. I know people say 95% is done etc.

No, because D has painted itself into a corner. Not only between GC and manual memory management but also that you cannot swap GC types (any type of GC, like Nim can) because D treats all pointers the same. That might have some advantages but I would say that the disadvantage is huge.

Memory management wise, D is going nowhere as it seems.

May 13

On Thursday, 13 May 2021 at 20:57:13 UTC, dogman wrote:

>

Question to the core team. Whats the plan and roadmap for D ?
a. are we planning to keep D just as a hobby language or a real contender for industry use. Despite being complex, rust has started to get adopted in industries. Whats our plan ?

D can already be used professionally

>

b. When are we planning to focus on memory safety and use that as our strength

How are we not?

>

c. Will we ever make D as both a GC and non GC language. So that it can be used across control plane, data plane, kernel. I know betterC, but could we make it more easy and accessible common public to able to use phobos. I know people say 95% is done etc.

Is there any language more flexible than D in this regard? You already have much choice.

>

d. Why there are no working groups for tooling, webframeworks, performance, compiler etc so that we can improve on each area.

This is a valid point but the answer is how would that be done.

>

e. Why is weka not sponsoring ? why are we not advertising that the fastest filesystem is made in D ?

Can't answer this. It's a bit weird yes.

>

f. D has all properties to make it a good language. But needs more work and marketing. Why cant we make D as a safe and fast extension to C++ & python

You are correct sir, we must market D more. Do your part and spread it ☀️

May 14
13.05.2021 23:57, dogman пишет:
> Question to the core team. Whats the plan and roadmap for D ?
> a. are we planning to keep D just as a hobby language or a real contender for industry use. Despite being complex, rust has started to get adopted in industries. Whats our plan ?
> 

I guess that Walter is planning to keep D just as his hobby language (no offense). And definitely there is no any plan to get it adopted for industries. Even more I wouldn't be surprised if there is no any plan at all.

> b. When are we planning to focus on memory safety and use that as our strength
> 

See above

> c. Will we ever make D as both a GC and non GC language. So that it can be used across control plane, data plane, kernel. I know betterC, but could we make it more easy and accessible common public to able to use phobos. I know people say 95% is done etc.
> 

That's would be really nice. But see #1

> d. Why there are no working groups for tooling, webframeworks, performance, compiler etc so that we can improve on each area.
> 

The problem is that D has been evolved by a bunch of talented people. They were and are really seasoned but communication between them is very poor. For example taggedalgebraic has been created by Shonke long before sumtype but taggedalgebraic was known to small subset of D developers only and now we have sumtype. It's good library and kudos to its author but that things create fragmentation in language ecosystem.
We tried to make working group for gui related things but failed because everyone had its own opinion and we failed to find common ground. There are two ways to solve that - either increase comminity to rise probability for developers to find common ground or organize available developers to work in coordinated manner. Who is motivated so high to do that?

> e. Why is weka not sponsoring ? why are we not advertising that the fastest filesystem is made in D ?
> 

They sponsored D several times. But it looks like they shy its using. Sometimes I even suppose they could rewrite their code base in other language.

> f. D has all properties to make it a good language. But needs more work and marketing. Why cant we make D as a safe and fast extension to C++ & python

Totally agree. D needs the leader(s).

Once again, I'm very much appreciate those giant efforts that language authors and developers has taken. They are really tremendous people. I just want D takes its appropriate place in the world.
May 14
On Friday, 14 May 2021 at 11:31:28 UTC, drug wrote:
> 13.05.2021 23:57, dogman пишет:
>> Question to the core team. Whats the plan and roadmap for D ?
>> a. are we planning to keep D just as a hobby language or a real contender for industry use. Despite being complex, rust has started to get adopted in industries. Whats our plan ?
>> 
>
> I guess that Walter is planning to keep D just as his hobby language (no offense). And definitely there is no any plan to get it adopted for industries. Even more I wouldn't be surprised if there is no any plan at all.

My impression last year was that the plan is to provide a competitive memory management strategy.

Seems like it isn't moving because there is no willingness to accept hard changes and also not a willingness to make unpopular decisions, which are necessary.

Right now, it looks like no significant changes are likely, or that an alternative language will emerge.

May 14
On Friday, 14 May 2021 at 11:31:28 UTC, drug wrote:
>
> Totally agree. D needs the leader(s).
>

We have the D maintainers but they aren't really leaders when it comes to organization or communication. When I think about leader(s) for the D project I think more about CEO material, not necessarily a computer language wiz but someone that move D forward and work in the interest of the project.
May 14

D The biggest problem is that there is no direction.
Moreover, D author never confronts users' questions directly.
D needs to be organized and, at the same time, have a clear goal.
Let users, beginners, know what you're going to do.

However, the D authors and leading developers have never faced this problem.
If the user doesn't know what you're trying to accomplish, no matter how good the language,
The user had to leave. Because we don't know the solid point of your language.
What are you going to do? Are you going to match the user's expectations?
Can users see the improvement?
Yes, small progress is everywhere. But what we expect is your clear goals and steps.
C + + has 20, 23 and 26,
Rust, many companies are using. Go, even if itaims at junk template.
But what's D's goal? Do we have a schedule?

Is it true that we are doing things at random, and whoever has good things ,and then we will copy it?
Hope, D writers, wake up and make a schedule.
Let users see hope.

May 14
14.05.2021 16:25, IGotD- пишет:
> not necessarily a computer language wiz but someone that move D forward and work in the interest of the project

This
May 14

Well, suppose I'm the leader of D
0, do a vote, bull force people, important library author, vote for 10, ordinary users, vote for 1, first investigate, understand the different needs of various users

  1. Focus on users' core requirements, such as' better c ', such as' memory security', such as' various bugs fix', such as' C 'compatibility, and' C + + 'compatibility.

  2. Gather a group of enthusiasts and experts together to understand their respective areas of expertise, and assign corresponding tasks in their respective areas. At the same time, ask them to give a timetable for completion. Of course, there are rewards

  3. Allocation of money: 1,50% for publicity. 2,50% for reward for accomplishing the above tasks. At present, there are too few publicity and too few reward, so efforts must be made in this regard. At the same time, money should be allocated according to the stage change

  4. Action

May 14

On Thursday, 13 May 2021 at 20:57:13 UTC, dogman wrote:

>

Question to the core team. Whats the plan and roadmap for D ?
a. are we planning to keep D just as a hobby language or a real contender for industry use. Despite being complex, rust has started to get adopted in industries. Whats our plan ?

b. When are we planning to focus on memory safety and use that as our strength

c. Will we ever make D as both a GC and non GC language. So that it can be used across control plane, data plane, kernel. I know betterC, but could we make it more easy and accessible common public to able to use phobos. I know people say 95% is done etc.

d. Why there are no working groups for tooling, webframeworks, performance, compiler etc so that we can improve on each area.

e. Why is weka not sponsoring ? why are we not advertising that the fastest filesystem is made in D ?

f. D has all properties to make it a good language. But needs more work and marketing. Why cant we make D as a safe and fast extension to C++ & python

Do not plan to get an answer
This kind of question is asked every years since at least 10 years ago.

I am remind that at begining ov dlang v2 it was : it is not our faut the War tango vs photos as stdlib just broke our community. We need a killer application à la Ruby on rails.
Now it is not 1 killer application but a set of software environnements on se, Big data, sécurité, gui, games...
How they Can Do it?
To remember D is bien in 2001 and Rust ...

Instead to add New feature maybe waste dôme Time on one of previous topic des robes above in order to get a chance to be more heavily used...

I remember a Time to where Facebook use D to replace c++ code but now ...

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