Tsoding - How Not to Market Your Language Features

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Ali Çehreli

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Richard (Rikki) Andrew Cattermole

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Derek Fawcus

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Richard (Rikki) Andrew Cattermole

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Derek Fawcus

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Richard (Rikki) Andrew Cattermole

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On Thursday, 27 March 2025 at 14:21:11 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: > I haven't watched it yet. I'm just attempting to beat you to announce it. :p > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kRsbu82zqs > > Ali Hey ma, Rikki is on the TV! 1:58:10 actually the only thing that you can check from this stream https://youtu.be/_kRsbu82zqs?t=7091

On Thursday, 27 March 2025 at 14:29:15 UTC, Sergey wrote: > On Thursday, 27 March 2025 at 14:21:11 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: >> I haven't watched it yet. I'm just attempting to beat you to announce it. :p >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kRsbu82zqs >> >> Ali > > Hey ma, Rikki is on the TV! > 1:58:10 actually the only thing that you can check from this stream > > https://youtu.be/_kRsbu82zqs?t=7091 "how is that a _better c_ if I can't use functions that I can use from c?" ( ... after having included the provided core modules, I would add...) Touche!

On Thursday, 27 March 2025 at 14:21:11 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: > I haven't watched it yet. I'm just attempting to beat you to announce it. :p > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kRsbu82zqs > > Ali oh hey, look someone trying to use betterc instantly deciding that phoboes is unusable and calling the core dev liars; how weird that happened again.

On Friday, 28 March 2025 at 05:30:55 UTC, monkyyy wrote: > On Thursday, 27 March 2025 at 14:21:11 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: >> I haven't watched it yet. I'm just attempting to beat you to announce it. :p >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kRsbu82zqs >> >> Ali > > oh hey, look someone trying to use betterc instantly deciding that phoboes is unusable and calling the core dev liars; how weird that happened again. He never said that Phobos is unusable and actually said that experience with normal GC + Phobos are quite good and that "normal D" is better than Go (good for D he doesn't do web development and doesn't know that D has nothing to do in modern cloud web area). But he just wanted to use something that is lower-level and based on the name "betterC" thought that it is really some mode of the language that is better than C.. But faced with some issues about that - so his the main point was that the name is misleading and flag should be renamed to something else.

On Thursday, 27 March 2025 at 14:21:11 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote: > I haven't watched it yet. I'm just attempting to beat you to announce it. :p > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kRsbu82zqs Is there a good reason why `main` isn’t `extern(C)` by default in BetterC?

On Friday, 28 March 2025 at 07:40:08 UTC, Sergey wrote:

(good for D he doesn't do web development and doesn't know that D has nothing to do in modern cloud web area).

Can you elaborate that "has nothing to do"? Do you mean that anything D offers over the common languages is of no use in web development?

My recent experience disagrees. I wanted to preprocess HTML pages in my Vibe.d server, but I couldn't make them Diet templates since they are processed through Jekyll which outputs HTML.

So, I entered my D code inside a <script type="dlang"> block, and had my application to parse the HTML file at compile time, putting the D script in a mixin. In most other compiled languages, I would have had to write a new program to extract the preprocessor script out of the HTML, adding another phase to the build process - quite a bit more complicated! The CTFE features of D really simplified my life here.

4 days ago

Re: Tsoding - How Not to Market Your Language Features

Posted by Sergey
in reply to Dukc

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Sergey

Posted in reply to Dukc

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On Friday, 28 March 2025 at 09:25:09 UTC, Dukc wrote:

On Friday, 28 March 2025 at 07:40:08 UTC, Sergey wrote:

(good for D he doesn't do web development and doesn't know that D has nothing to do in modern cloud web area).

Can you elaborate that "has nothing to do"? Do you mean that anything D offers over the common languages is of no use in web development?

My recent experience disagrees. I wanted to preprocess HTML pages in my Vibe.d server, but I couldn't make them Diet templates since they are processed through Jekyll which outputs HTML.

Like web-sites maybe. By "modern cloud web" things I meant the whole ecosystem related to things where all web-services are working now.

Things like AWS, Google Cloud, Azure..
Things like protobuf and grpc..
First class oauth libraries and cryptography things..
Orchestration and authentications.. postman and kubernetes..
Grafana? nope

Also many approaches are expecting async/await behavior and interfaces

When I'm just opening some libraries related to the web and they have list of clients implementations (very common situation they are mentioning both officially supported and community-driven) - D is almost always not in the list

Is it possible to build all those things? sure. But because it is not there and seems D is not popular in that area - nobody doing this as well.

As an example for this rare lib that D has - prometheus.
D usage (based on dub) of both packages (old and new) ~ 200
https://code.dlang.org/packages/prometheus2
https://code.dlang.org/packages/prometheus

Let's now check Rust crate - depends on the versions but about 100k
https://crates.io/crates/prometheus

Similar situation will be with other langs, used by web industry.

And if for gamedev/graphics we can say D has top-class libraries and solutions, we definitely can't say it for modern web

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