I have a friend that is a web developer. I, however want to collaborate with him, so I am trying to get him to learn D. I  don't know how to persuade him! How can D be used to greatly assist an HTML5/JavaScript web developer? I decided to go here to get some good answers. How can D be used to interopt with modern web development?

On 2014-04-29 10:41 AM, James wrote:
> I have a friend that is a web developer. I, however want to collaborate
> with him, so I am trying to get him to learn D. I don't know how to
> persuade him! How can D be used to greatly assist an HTML5/JavaScript
> web developer? I decided to go here to get some good answers. How can D
> be used to interopt with modern web development?

You should ask this in http://forum.rejectedsoftware.com/groups/rejectedsoftware.vibed/

But while we're here, maybe you could send him a link to http://vibed.org/ along with a link to http://dlang.org/phobos/std_algorithm.html that he could read when he has 10 minutes

I don't know how else you could convince him. Possibly benchmarks?

http://atilanevesoncode.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/go-vs-d-vs-erlang-vs-c-in-real-life-mqtt-broker-implementation-shootout/

Or an example of a dynamic web project backend?

https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/vibe.d/tree/master/examples/web
He might not be so familiar with type safety though, so then your arguments will have to be more technical - type safety is the only way you can ever scale a project because most bugs are caught by the compiler.

He can keep using his front-end libraries too. Browsers don't run D code, they simply request bytes from it.

Good luck!

I recently started a Ruby on Rails job and using it makes me really, really miss the high productivity and ease of use D offers. (And, of course, a dynamic site in D runs about 3x faster out of the box than hello world served by Rails, zero effort in optimization. And "rake test", just shoot me, I'd rather rebuild a C++ project from scratch, at least that'll finish before the heat death of the universe.)

On 4/29/2014 10:41 AM, James wrote:
> I have a friend that is a web developer. I, however want to collaborate
> with him, so I am trying to get him to learn D. I don't know how to
> persuade him! How can D be used to greatly assist an HTML5/JavaScript
> web developer? I decided to go here to get some good answers. How can D
> be used to interopt with modern web development?

Show him forum.dlang.org (written in D) and point out that modern HTML5/JS sites are freaking horrid. </admitted-curmudgeon>

On 2014-04-29 11:27 AM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
> I recently started a Ruby on Rails job and using it makes me really,
> really miss the high productivity and ease of use D offers. (And, of
> course, a dynamic site in D runs about 3x faster out of the box than
> hello world served by Rails, zero effort in optimization. And "rake
> test", just shoot me, I'd rather rebuild a C++ project from scratch, at
> least that'll finish before the heat death of the universe.)

That's funny b/c most people say RoR made them love web development. If the D community could organize itself the same way RoR is around web dev, I doubt any other web scripting language could pursue existence.

On Tuesday, 29 April 2014 at 15:17:10 UTC, Etienne wrote:
> On 2014-04-29 10:41 AM, James wrote:
>> I have a friend that is a web developer. I, however want to collaborate
>> with him, so I am trying to get him to learn D. I don't know how to
>> persuade him! How can D be used to greatly assist an HTML5/JavaScript
>> web developer? I decided to go here to get some good answers. How can D
>> be used to interopt with modern web development?
>
> You should ask this in http://forum.rejectedsoftware.com/groups/rejectedsoftware.vibed/
>
> But while we're here, maybe you could send him a link to http://vibed.org/ along with a link to http://dlang.org/phobos/std_algorithm.html that he could read when he has 10 minutes
>
> I don't know how else you could convince him. Possibly benchmarks?
>
> http://atilanevesoncode.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/go-vs-d-vs-erlang-vs-c-in-real-life-mqtt-broker-implementation-shootout/
>
> Or an example of a dynamic web project backend?
>
> https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/vibe.d/tree/master/examples/web
> He might not be so familiar with type safety though, so then your arguments will have to be more technical - type safety is the only way you can ever scale a project because most bugs are caught by the compiler.
>
> He can keep using his front-end libraries too. Browsers don't run D code, they simply request bytes from it.
>
> Good luck!

Agree. Give vibe.d a try. If your friend uses dub to build it, it should be pretty easy to get started. A basic server app is very simple and straight forward to implement with vibe.d. Once the server is running he can use his existing html / js files (the server app just, well, "serves" them), or he can do more fancy script like stuff with diet templates:

http://vibed.org/docs#html-templates
and
http://vibed.org/templates/diet

And yes, vibe.d is by an order of magnitude faster than your usual web infrastructures.

On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 11:55:11AM -0400, Etienne via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On 2014-04-29 11:27 AM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
> >I recently started a Ruby on Rails job and using it makes me really, really miss the high productivity and ease of use D offers. (And, of course, a dynamic site in D runs about 3x faster out of the box than hello world served by Rails, zero effort in optimization. And "rake test", just shoot me, I'd rather rebuild a C++ project from scratch, at least that'll finish before the heat death of the universe.)
> 
> That's funny b/c most people say RoR made them love web development.
[...]

That's not what I hear. My cousin, who does RoR, hates it with a passion, and wishes she could get out of it. But unfortunately, she can't.

I don't use RoR personally, though, so I can't speak for it myself.


T

-- 
I see that you JS got Bach.

On Tuesday, 29 April 2014 at 15:55:13 UTC, Etienne wrote:
> That's funny b/c most people say RoR made them love web development.

That's probably because they went into it with very little experience with the alternatives. I was spoiled by my web.d and friends, as well as knowing how to use a real relational database, so getting on the Rails to me is like going back into the stone age.

But if you came from mysql 3 and PHP 4 or some other primitive trash, RoR might seem like the best thing ever.

I do kinda like the rails console repl tho. Of course, I kinda have that with cgi.d too, you can call its methods on the regular command line pretty easily, but that doesn't let you build up state as easily for quick changes and I do like that. (Maybe I'll offer such with my script.d, should be easy to add :P)

the rest of it tho is just awful.

On 4/29/2014 11:55 AM, Etienne wrote:
> On 2014-04-29 11:27 AM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
>> I recently started a Ruby on Rails job and using it makes me really,
>> really miss the high productivity and ease of use D offers. (And, of
>> course, a dynamic site in D runs about 3x faster out of the box than
>> hello world served by Rails, zero effort in optimization. And "rake
>> test", just shoot me, I'd rather rebuild a C++ project from scratch, at
>> least that'll finish before the heat death of the universe.)
>
> That's funny b/c most people say RoR made them love web development. If
> the D community could organize itself the same way RoR is around web
> dev, I doubt any other web scripting language could pursue existence.

Ruby on Rails popularized MVC web frameworks, and that was a significant step forward from the stuff that came before, like PHP, ASP or even arguably ASP.NET (or *shudder* ColdFusion). I think that's always been RoR's main benefit and appeal.

But since then, every other language under the sun (or rather, under florescent lights?) has grown its own MVC web framework, so Rails's biggest distinguishing characteristic now is just that it's in Ruby. And Ruby is kinda famous for having little significance outside of Rails itself. (Although, I did find Rake quite beneficial in an older project with a rather complex build. Course, these days D/Phobos has gotten good enough I'd just do a build script in D.)

At least that's my impression of Ruby and Rails.

Am 29.04.2014 19:45, schrieb Nick Sabalausky:
> On 4/29/2014 11:55 AM, Etienne wrote:
>> On 2014-04-29 11:27 AM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
>>> I recently started a Ruby on Rails job and using it makes me really,
>>> really miss the high productivity and ease of use D offers. (And, of
>>> course, a dynamic site in D runs about 3x faster out of the box than
>>> hello world served by Rails, zero effort in optimization. And "rake
>>> test", just shoot me, I'd rather rebuild a C++ project from scratch, at
>>> least that'll finish before the heat death of the universe.)
>>
>> That's funny b/c most people say RoR made them love web development. If
>> the D community could organize itself the same way RoR is around web
>> dev, I doubt any other web scripting language could pursue existence.
>
> Ruby on Rails popularized MVC web frameworks, and that was a significant
> step forward from the stuff that came before, like PHP, ASP or even
> arguably ASP.NET (or *shudder* ColdFusion). I think that's always been
> RoR's main benefit and appeal.
>
> But since then, every other language under the sun (or rather, under
> florescent lights?) has grown its own MVC web framework, so Rails's
> biggest distinguishing characteristic now is just that it's in Ruby. And
> Ruby is kinda famous for having little significance outside of Rails
> itself. (Although, I did find Rake quite beneficial in an older project
> with a rather complex build. Course, these days D/Phobos has gotten good
> enough I'd just do a build script in D.)
>
> At least that's my impression of Ruby and Rails.
>

I was already doing RoR back in 1999, but it was with our own in-house TCL Apache/IIS module in a Portuguese startup, far far away from Silicon Valley and loosely based in AOL Server concepts.

We eventually moved into .NET, at the time only known to Microsoft partners like our mother company, before it was announced to the world.

It was a very good learning experience, building a whole stack from the ground up, back in the early web days.

We already had Active Record and MVC with security layers and scaffolding, just in TCL and unknown to the world.

--
Paulo