On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 22:05:32 -0700, Walter <newshound@digitalmars.com> wrote:
> "Ant" <duitoolkit@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:pan.2004.06.14.02.07.52.929078@yahoo.ca...
>> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:47:21 -0700, Walter wrote:
>> >> you are stuck in the past, sorry.
>> >
>> > Sorry, I'm using the latest Microsoft Explorer, the latest HP laser
> printer,
>> > the latest Windows XP, and Red Hat Linux 9. All have 8 character tab
> stops
>> > wired in <g>.
>>
>> They are also living in the past ;)
>> printer? printer? who prints things anymore? that's 20th century ;)
>>
>> But, that list doesn't contain a code editor.
>> All posters on this thread use tabs.
>> inclusive the original poster that asked for spaces!
>> all of them redefine the tab stops.
>
> I use microEmacs. Tabs are fixed at 8 <g>.
>
> But seriously, if you use non-8 character tabs, the code won't print without
> using a special print program (when I want to print code, I don't want to
> look up the printer driver and try to figure out what arcane way to reset
> the tab stops, print, then set it back, I just want to print it), it won't
> look right in the source level debugger, it won't work as <pre></pre> in
> html pages, it won't 'type' to the screen on command prompt, etc. I don't
> want to run it through a perl script just so I can look at it. Non-8 tabs
> always going to be out of step with the way everything works. The code will
> always format like **** when emailed to someone who can't print it without
> special settings, etc. It might be fine for closely held source, but for
> widely distributed source, tabs need to kowtow to the default on practically
> every piece of hardware and software that displays ascii text.
>
> I know lots of code editors that have soft tab settings. But as soon as you
> leave that environment, every other program or hardware that displays text
> will go awry with the result.
>
> Distributed source code should be context-free, i.e. it shouldn't need to
> come with an external set of instructions saying what format it is in. And
> nobody ever bothers giving such instructions, so the inevitable result is
> the code looks like **** when brought up in an editor.

I don't think I understand the problem here.. I use MSVC, I set my tabs to 4 spaces, meaning that when I press TAB it inserts the \t char into my source file and displays it as 4 spaces.

So if I open my source in notepad it reads \t and displays it as 8 spaces.

It does not look like **** it looks fine, it simply has more horizontal space.

From what you're saying if I print it in MSVC it will look like it does in notepad? or are you saying something else?

If I need something in the code to line up under all situations i.e. comments on table columns etc, I will use spaces. I know for a fact that a space will take up 1 characters worth of space all the time, everywhere.

What I *never* do is use both spaces AND tabs on one line, as this will never look right except under the same conditions as I wrote it.

This is assuming they don't display it using non fixed-width fonts, in which case it doesn't matter what you do it won't line up, ever.

Regan

-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

"Walter" <newshound@digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:cajbos$2ggr$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>
> "Ant" <duitoolkit@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:pan.2004.06.14.02.07.52.929078@yahoo.ca...
> > On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:47:21 -0700, Walter wrote:
> > >> you are stuck in the past, sorry.
> > >
> > > Sorry, I'm using the latest Microsoft Explorer, the latest HP laser
> printer,
> > > the latest Windows XP, and Red Hat Linux 9. All have 8 character tab
> stops
> > > wired in <g>.
> >
> > They are also living in the past ;)
> > printer? printer? who prints things anymore? that's 20th century ;)
> >
> > But, that list doesn't contain a code editor.
> > All posters on this thread use tabs.
> > inclusive the original poster that asked for spaces!
> > all of them redefine the tab stops.
>
> I use microEmacs. Tabs are fixed at 8 <g>.
>
> But seriously, if you use non-8 character tabs, the code won't print without using a special print program (when I want to print code, I don't want to look up the printer driver and try to figure out what arcane way to reset the tab stops, print, then set it back, I just want to print it), it won't look right in the source level debugger, it won't work as <pre></pre> in html pages, it won't 'type' to the screen on command prompt, etc. I don't want to run it through a perl script just so I can look at it. Non-8 tabs always going to be out of step with the way everything works. The code will always format like **** when emailed to someone who can't print it without special settings, etc. It might be fine for closely held source, but for widely distributed source, tabs need to kowtow to the default on practically every piece of hardware and software that displays ascii text.
>
> I know lots of code editors that have soft tab settings. But as soon as you leave that environment, every other program or hardware that displays text will go awry with the result.
>
> Distributed source code should be context-free, i.e. it shouldn't need to come with an external set of instructions saying what format it is in. And nobody ever bothers giving such instructions, so the inevitable result is the code looks like **** when brought up in an editor.

Aren't you just backing up my argument that you untabify your source before bundling. As it stands, it's not context-free, since it assumes tabstops are 8.

There's no good saying that others are wrong, since there's a proliferation of editors that use soft tabs, set to the "scientifically optimal" 4. If you want your code to appear correctly irrespective of context, it needs to be untabified.

Otherwise, you're going to look like Betamax, and everyone else'll be seeing your code through the eyes of VHS.

Of course, I could just remember to untabify (with -t8) the DMD source every time I download. But I already think it's amazing quality, it's others you should be concerned with. =P

"Regan Heath" <regan@netwin.co.nz> wrote in message news:opr9kj2ig85a2sq9@digitalmars.com...
> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 22:05:32 -0700, Walter <newshound@digitalmars.com> wrote:
> > "Ant" <duitoolkit@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:pan.2004.06.14.02.07.52.929078@yahoo.ca...
> >> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:47:21 -0700, Walter wrote:
> >> >> you are stuck in the past, sorry.
> >> >
> >> > Sorry, I'm using the latest Microsoft Explorer, the latest HP laser
> > printer,
> >> > the latest Windows XP, and Red Hat Linux 9. All have 8 character tab
> > stops
> >> > wired in <g>.
> >>
> >> They are also living in the past ;)
> >> printer? printer? who prints things anymore? that's 20th century ;)
> >>
> >> But, that list doesn't contain a code editor.
> >> All posters on this thread use tabs.
> >> inclusive the original poster that asked for spaces!
> >> all of them redefine the tab stops.
> >
> > I use microEmacs. Tabs are fixed at 8 <g>.
> >
> > But seriously, if you use non-8 character tabs, the code won't print
> > without
> > using a special print program (when I want to print code, I don't want to
> > look up the printer driver and try to figure out what arcane way to reset
> > the tab stops, print, then set it back, I just want to print it), it
> > won't
> > look right in the source level debugger, it won't work as <pre></pre> in
> > html pages, it won't 'type' to the screen on command prompt, etc. I don't
> > want to run it through a perl script just so I can look at it. Non-8 tabs
> > always going to be out of step with the way everything works. The code
> > will
> > always format like **** when emailed to someone who can't print it
> > without
> > special settings, etc. It might be fine for closely held source, but for
> > widely distributed source, tabs need to kowtow to the default on
> > practically
> > every piece of hardware and software that displays ascii text.
> >
> > I know lots of code editors that have soft tab settings. But as soon as
> > you
> > leave that environment, every other program or hardware that displays
> > text
> > will go awry with the result.
> >
> > Distributed source code should be context-free, i.e. it shouldn't need to
> > come with an external set of instructions saying what format it is in.
> > And
> > nobody ever bothers giving such instructions, so the inevitable result is
> > the code looks like **** when brought up in an editor.
>
> I don't think I understand the problem here.. I use MSVC, I set my tabs to 4 spaces, meaning that when I press TAB it inserts the \t char into my source file and displays it as 4 spaces.
>
> So if I open my source in notepad it reads \t and displays it as 8 spaces.
>
> It does not look like **** it looks fine, it simply has more horizontal space.
>
>  From what you're saying if I print it in MSVC it will look like it does in
> notepad? or are you saying something else?
>
> If I need something in the code to line up under all situations i.e. comments on table columns etc, I will use spaces. I know for a fact that a space will take up 1 characters worth of space all the time, everywhere.
>
> What I *never* do is use both spaces AND tabs on one line, as this will never look right except under the same conditions as I wrote it.
>
> This is assuming they don't display it using non fixed-width fonts, in which case it doesn't matter what you do it won't line up, ever.

Walter uses an indentation scheme that I'm familiar with via (g)vim. Basically, if the indent is odd (i.e. 1st, 3rd, 5th), then the editor inserts 4 spaces. For even indents (2nd, 4th, etc.) then it inserts a single hard tab. Since such editors use tabstop=8, it all looks dandy. Also, any device which does not redefine the tabstop from 8 will also display correctly. That's the source of Walter's talking about printers, etc.

The problem is that the choice of 8 spaces per tabstop is one of those horrible decisions we're perpetually stuck with. Many editors have provided the ability to redefine the tabstop from 8 to a smaller value. This is most often 4, but I've seen 3, 2, 1 and even 5! Anyway, whatever the size, these programs are all, strictly, wrong. So Walter is quite correct that he's correct. <g>

However, most of us use such "wrong" editors, and so when one opens up a
4(space)/8(tab) document with, say, 4 spaces, the indentation is shot to hell,
and the code looks RS.

Since vim allows you to elect to use all spaces, rather than mixed space+tab, and makes backspace still act as if you've deleted a tab (rather than needing to do three more backspaces, like you do in some other dumb ass editors), I cannot believe emacs does not have the same facility. Therefore, it would cost Walter nothing to change to all spaces, and would mean that anyone - either D-philes like us, or "not so sure"s - looking at the code would see all the high quality splendour that is big-W's codified splendour.

Failing that, he could attain the same spell-binding of his readers by just including an untabification step in the release of Phobos. Again, virtually no effort, and a manifest gain.

On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:31:45 +1000, Matthew <admin@stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> wrote:
> "Regan Heath" <regan@netwin.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:opr9kj2ig85a2sq9@digitalmars.com...
>> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 22:05:32 -0700, Walter <newshound@digitalmars.com>
>> wrote:
>> > "Ant" <duitoolkit@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
>> > news:pan.2004.06.14.02.07.52.929078@yahoo.ca...
>> >> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:47:21 -0700, Walter wrote:
>> >> >> you are stuck in the past, sorry.
>> >> >
>> >> > Sorry, I'm using the latest Microsoft Explorer, the latest HP laser
>> > printer,
>> >> > the latest Windows XP, and Red Hat Linux 9. All have 8 character 
>> tab
>> > stops
>> >> > wired in <g>.
>> >>
>> >> They are also living in the past ;)
>> >> printer? printer? who prints things anymore? that's 20th century ;)
>> >>
>> >> But, that list doesn't contain a code editor.
>> >> All posters on this thread use tabs.
>> >> inclusive the original poster that asked for spaces!
>> >> all of them redefine the tab stops.
>> >
>> > I use microEmacs. Tabs are fixed at 8 <g>.
>> >
>> > But seriously, if you use non-8 character tabs, the code won't print
>> > without
>> > using a special print program (when I want to print code, I don't 
>> want to
>> > look up the printer driver and try to figure out what arcane way to 
>> reset
>> > the tab stops, print, then set it back, I just want to print it), it
>> > won't
>> > look right in the source level debugger, it won't work as <pre></pre> 
>> in
>> > html pages, it won't 'type' to the screen on command prompt, etc. I 
>> don't
>> > want to run it through a perl script just so I can look at it. Non-8 
>> tabs
>> > always going to be out of step with the way everything works. The code
>> > will
>> > always format like **** when emailed to someone who can't print it
>> > without
>> > special settings, etc. It might be fine for closely held source, but 
>> for
>> > widely distributed source, tabs need to kowtow to the default on
>> > practically
>> > every piece of hardware and software that displays ascii text.
>> >
>> > I know lots of code editors that have soft tab settings. But as soon 
>> as
>> > you
>> > leave that environment, every other program or hardware that displays
>> > text
>> > will go awry with the result.
>> >
>> > Distributed source code should be context-free, i.e. it shouldn't 
>> need to
>> > come with an external set of instructions saying what format it is in.
>> > And
>> > nobody ever bothers giving such instructions, so the inevitable 
>> result is
>> > the code looks like **** when brought up in an editor.
>>
>> I don't think I understand the problem here.. I use MSVC, I set my tabs to
>> 4 spaces, meaning that when I press TAB it inserts the \t char into my
>> source file and displays it as 4 spaces.
>>
>> So if I open my source in notepad it reads \t and displays it as 8 spaces.
>>
>> It does not look like **** it looks fine, it simply has more horizontal
>> space.
>>
>>  From what you're saying if I print it in MSVC it will look like it does in
>> notepad? or are you saying something else?
>>
>> If I need something in the code to line up under all situations i.e.
>> comments on table columns etc, I will use spaces. I know for a fact that a
>> space will take up 1 characters worth of space all the time, everywhere.
>>
>> What I *never* do is use both spaces AND tabs on one line, as this will
>> never look right except under the same conditions as I wrote it.
>>
>> This is assuming they don't display it using non fixed-width fonts, in
>> which case it doesn't matter what you do it won't line up, ever.
>
> Walter uses an indentation scheme that I'm familiar with via (g)vim. Basically,
> if the indent is odd (i.e. 1st, 3rd, 5th), then the editor inserts 4 spaces. For
> even indents (2nd, 4th, etc.) then it inserts a single hard tab.

So you're saying it mixes spaces and tabs on a single line? i.e.

    I pressed tab once
\tI pressed tab twice
\t    I pressed tab 3 times
\t\tI pressed tab 4 times
\t\t    I pressed tab 5 times

yes?

If so, yuck! no wonder there is a problem! What crack addled chimpanzee decided that was a good idea??!

> Since such
> editors use tabstop=8, it all looks dandy. Also, any device which does not
> redefine the tabstop from 8 will also display correctly. That's the source of
> Walter's talking about printers, etc.

So you cannot tell a printer to use a different tabstop?

> The problem is that the choice of 8 spaces per tabstop is one of those horrible
> decisions we're perpetually stuck with.

Hindsight is 20-20.

> Many editors have provided the ability to
> redefine the tabstop from 8 to a smaller value. This is most often 4, but I've
> seen 3, 2, 1 and even 5! Anyway, whatever the size, these programs are all,
> strictly, wrong. So Walter is quite correct that he's correct. <g>

These programs are only strictly wrong if they are supposed to be WYSIWYG editors. If not, then there is nothing wrong with displaying a tab as 4 spaces, and saving it in the file as a single tab.

I prefer WYTIWYG (what you type is what you get) and I'll display it however you tell me to editors.

> However, most of us use such "wrong" editors, and so when one opens up a
> 4(space)/8(tab) document with, say, 4 spaces, the indentation is shot to hell,
> and the code looks RS.

Indeed.

> Since vim allows you to elect to use all spaces, rather than mixed space+tab, and
> makes backspace still act as if you've deleted a tab (rather than needing to do
> three more backspaces, like you do in some other dumb ass editors), I cannot
> believe emacs does not have the same facility. Therefore, it would cost Walter
> nothing to change to all spaces, and would mean that anyone - either D-philes
> like us, or "not so sure"s - looking at the code would see all the high quality
> splendour that is big-W's codified splendour.

LOL. flattery will get you no-where methinks.

> Failing that, he could attain the same spell-binding of his readers by just
> including an untabification step in the release of Phobos. Again, virtually no
> effort, and a manifest gain.

Either soln sounds good.. Walter?

Regan.

-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

"Regan Heath" <regan@netwin.co.nz> wrote in message news:opr9klqrto5a2sq9@digitalmars.com...
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:31:45 +1000, Matthew <admin@stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> wrote:
> > "Regan Heath" <regan@netwin.co.nz> wrote in message news:opr9kj2ig85a2sq9@digitalmars.com...
> >> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 22:05:32 -0700, Walter <newshound@digitalmars.com> wrote:
> >> > "Ant" <duitoolkit@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:pan.2004.06.14.02.07.52.929078@yahoo.ca...
> >> >> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:47:21 -0700, Walter wrote:
> >> >> >> you are stuck in the past, sorry.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Sorry, I'm using the latest Microsoft Explorer, the latest HP laser
> >> > printer,
> >> >> > the latest Windows XP, and Red Hat Linux 9. All have 8 character
> >> tab
> >> > stops
> >> >> > wired in <g>.
> >> >>
> >> >> They are also living in the past ;)
> >> >> printer? printer? who prints things anymore? that's 20th century ;)
> >> >>
> >> >> But, that list doesn't contain a code editor.
> >> >> All posters on this thread use tabs.
> >> >> inclusive the original poster that asked for spaces!
> >> >> all of them redefine the tab stops.
> >> >
> >> > I use microEmacs. Tabs are fixed at 8 <g>.
> >> >
> >> > But seriously, if you use non-8 character tabs, the code won't print
> >> > without
> >> > using a special print program (when I want to print code, I don't
> >> want to
> >> > look up the printer driver and try to figure out what arcane way to
> >> reset
> >> > the tab stops, print, then set it back, I just want to print it), it
> >> > won't
> >> > look right in the source level debugger, it won't work as <pre></pre>
> >> in
> >> > html pages, it won't 'type' to the screen on command prompt, etc. I
> >> don't
> >> > want to run it through a perl script just so I can look at it. Non-8
> >> tabs
> >> > always going to be out of step with the way everything works. The code
> >> > will
> >> > always format like **** when emailed to someone who can't print it
> >> > without
> >> > special settings, etc. It might be fine for closely held source, but
> >> for
> >> > widely distributed source, tabs need to kowtow to the default on
> >> > practically
> >> > every piece of hardware and software that displays ascii text.
> >> >
> >> > I know lots of code editors that have soft tab settings. But as soon
> >> as
> >> > you
> >> > leave that environment, every other program or hardware that displays
> >> > text
> >> > will go awry with the result.
> >> >
> >> > Distributed source code should be context-free, i.e. it shouldn't
> >> need to
> >> > come with an external set of instructions saying what format it is in.
> >> > And
> >> > nobody ever bothers giving such instructions, so the inevitable
> >> result is
> >> > the code looks like **** when brought up in an editor.
> >>
> >> I don't think I understand the problem here.. I use MSVC, I set my tabs
> >> to
> >> 4 spaces, meaning that when I press TAB it inserts the \t char into my
> >> source file and displays it as 4 spaces.
> >>
> >> So if I open my source in notepad it reads \t and displays it as 8 spaces.
> >>
> >> It does not look like **** it looks fine, it simply has more horizontal space.
> >>
> >>  From what you're saying if I print it in MSVC it will look like it
> >> does in
> >> notepad? or are you saying something else?
> >>
> >> If I need something in the code to line up under all situations i.e.
> >> comments on table columns etc, I will use spaces. I know for a fact
> >> that a
> >> space will take up 1 characters worth of space all the time, everywhere.
> >>
> >> What I *never* do is use both spaces AND tabs on one line, as this will never look right except under the same conditions as I wrote it.
> >>
> >> This is assuming they don't display it using non fixed-width fonts, in which case it doesn't matter what you do it won't line up, ever.
> >
> > Walter uses an indentation scheme that I'm familiar with via (g)vim.
> > Basically,
> > if the indent is odd (i.e. 1st, 3rd, 5th), then the editor inserts 4
> > spaces. For
> > even indents (2nd, 4th, etc.) then it inserts a single hard tab.
>
> So you're saying it mixes spaces and tabs on a single line? i.e.
>
>      I pressed tab once
> \tI pressed tab twice
> \t    I pressed tab 3 times
> \t\tI pressed tab 4 times
> \t\t    I pressed tab 5 times
>
> yes?

If, translating your invisible spaces for ., you mean

....I pressed tab once
\tI pressed tab twice
\t....I pressed tab 3 times
\t\tI pressed tab 4 times
\t\t....I pressed tab 5 times

then yes

> If so, yuck! no wonder there is a problem! What crack addled chimpanzee decided that was a good idea??!

LOL!!!

That's a fantastic one. I must remember that. <G>

I've been meaning to put up a web page with "SE Abuses" for ages. I think you've inspired me to put it on again. Or maybe we can just pick the juciest for an Appendix in the D book? :)

> > Since such
> > editors use tabstop=8, it all looks dandy. Also, any device which does
> > not
> > redefine the tabstop from 8 will also display correctly. That's the
> > source of
> > Walter's talking about printers, etc.
>
> So you cannot tell a printer to use a different tabstop?

I imagine you can, but that's not the point. In this regard, Walter has a good point. It's just his remedy that I don't like

> > The problem is that the choice of 8 spaces per tabstop is one of those
> > horrible
> > decisions we're perpetually stuck with.
>
> Hindsight is 20-20.

:)

> > Many editors have provided the ability to
> > redefine the tabstop from 8 to a smaller value. This is most often 4,
> > but I've
> > seen 3, 2, 1 and even 5! Anyway, whatever the size, these programs are
> > all,
> > strictly, wrong. So Walter is quite correct that he's correct. <g>
>
> These programs are only strictly wrong if they are supposed to be WYSIWYG editors. If not, then there is nothing wrong with displaying a tab as 4 spaces, and saving it in the file as a single tab.
>
> I prefer WYTIWYG (what you type is what you get) and I'll display it
> however you tell me to editors.
>
> > However, most of us use such "wrong" editors, and so when one opens up a
> > 4(space)/8(tab) document with, say, 4 spaces, the indentation is shot to
> > hell,
> > and the code looks RS.
>
> Indeed.
>
> > Since vim allows you to elect to use all spaces, rather than mixed
> > space+tab, and
> > makes backspace still act as if you've deleted a tab (rather than
> > needing to do
> > three more backspaces, like you do in some other dumb ass editors), I
> > cannot
> > believe emacs does not have the same facility. Therefore, it would cost
> > Walter
> > nothing to change to all spaces, and would mean that anyone - either
> > D-philes
> > like us, or "not so sure"s - looking at the code would see all the high
> > quality
> > splendour that is big-W's codified splendour.
>
> LOL. flattery will get you no-where methinks.

And sarcasm will get me the door! But sarcasm flows in the veins of Englishmen. I constantly forget to put in the requisite ";)" and it gets me in all kind of trouble. (I recently offended just about every giant of the C++ with my, ahem, ahem, "wit". That was not a pleasant exercise in genuflectory recanting. Thankfully most of the D ng grok that I talk crap most of the time and ignore it. You're all more like my wife than you'd imagine ...)

Anyway, Walter knows that I think his code looks like it's as rough as a badger's arse, but that I also acknowledge that he has the upperhand in the argument, given the fact that the stuff he does with it damned impressive. I reckon I'm pretty typical as a developer in thinking everyone else's style is intolerably ugly. Several times in the past I've been instrumental in writing coding standards for clients - I have my mature concessional head on at such times <g> - and it's always the source of huge controversy. It's kind of amusing that there's always more attention, and _much_ more heat, on the coding standards than on the source control standards, or release procedures. Fools are we all. :)

> > Failing that, he could attain the same spell-binding of his readers by
> > just
> > including an untabification step in the release of Phobos. Again,
> > virtually no
> > effort, and a manifest gain.
>
> Either soln sounds good.. Walter?
>
> Regan.
>
> -- 
> Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

The Dr ... who? wrote:
> I get your tab scheme - Vim's softtabs / smarttabs - but it's just a PITA when
> viewed with any other tools whose default tabs are not 8, or which have been set
> to another tab setting.
> 
> Is there a good reason why you (and anyone writing for Phobos) can't change to
> just spaces only?

It's things like these that keep me from ever using hard tabs for anything, particularly in Python where the actual meaning of the code will get slaughtered along with the pretty formatting if anything should go awry. :)

 -- andy

"Regan Heath" <regan@netwin.co.nz> wrote in message news:opr9kj2ig85a2sq9@digitalmars.com...
> What I *never* do is use both spaces AND tabs on one line, as this will never look right except under the same conditions as I wrote it.

Despite most programmers mixing the two (including me), your technique only
works for leading tabs. Using tabs to line up, say, right hand comments (a
common style) fails even if you eshew spaces.

"Regan Heath" <regan@netwin.co.nz> wrote in message news:opr9klqrto5a2sq9@digitalmars.com...
> If so, yuck! no wonder there is a problem! What crack addled chimpanzee decided that was a good idea??!

[Raising hand]

-- crack addled chimpanzee

P.S. Adding a tab-to-space converter for release raises the spectre of having same-only-different versions of the source, something that isn't worth it.

P.P.S. "So you cannot tell a printer to use a different tabstop?" Sure I can. If I can find where I put the documention on it. And for my source debugger, and Explorer, and the command prompt, and the linux printer driver, and on and on, and for everyone else who wants to look at the code as well. No thanks. Switching tab stops is like using a Dvorak keyboard. Sure, qwerty sucks, but it sucks worse to be unable to type on any keyboard but your own - and like your friend will let you install a Dvorak driver on his laptop so you can check your email <g>.

"Walter" <newshound@digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:cajhs4$2qca$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>
> "Regan Heath" <regan@netwin.co.nz> wrote in message news:opr9klqrto5a2sq9@digitalmars.com...
> > If so, yuck! no wonder there is a problem! What crack addled chimpanzee decided that was a good idea??!
>
> [Raising hand]
>
> -- crack addled chimpanzee
>
> P.S. Adding a tab-to-space converter for release raises the spectre of having same-only-different versions of the source, something that isn't worth it.
>
> P.P.S. "So you cannot tell a printer to use a different tabstop?" Sure I can. If I can find where I put the documention on it. And for my source debugger, and Explorer, and the command prompt, and the linux printer driver, and on and on, and for everyone else who wants to look at the code as well. No thanks. Switching tab stops is like using a Dvorak keyboard. Sure, qwerty sucks, but it sucks worse to be unable to type on any keyboard but your own - and like your friend will let you install a Dvorak driver on his laptop so you can check your email <g>.

Isn't that exactly the point? Qwerty sucks. You think that all-spaces sucks. But it's the only way to get unambiguous and maximal compatiblity.

Anyway, I'm wiling away too much time on an issue I don't actually care about. (Fancy that!?). So I'll shut up. As the signature says ...


-- 
Matthew Wilson

Author: "Imperfect C++", Addison-Wesley, 2004
    (http://www.imperfectcplusplus.com)
Contributing editor, C/C++ Users Journal
    (http://www.synesis.com.au/articles.html#columns)
STLSoft moderator
    (http://www.stlsoft.org)

" I fold like a cheap hooker who got hit in the stomach by a fat guy with sores on his face" -- Joey

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Tabs in source code is evil (IMNSHO).

Lars Ivar Igesund