On Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 17:13:07 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote:
> You guys are complete ignoring 90% of the post. It is not just about configuration.
>
> Regardless, I'll be back in another year to see what progress has been made. Good luck. I really do hope you guys can get your shit together and make D the top language! I'd like to actually use it for serious stuff one of these days(hopefully before my hair turns gray)

Did you even look at Digger and DVM as was suggested above? They don't seem to fulfil your vision, but they do provide some of what you are asking for.

On Monday, 23 March 2015 at 21:34:09 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote:
>  In 10 more years I doubt Andrei or Walter will have as much energy to do all the work that they are doing... Better build the infrastructure now while there is time.

Make an atom plugin. The one stop shop for all things D.

You have never tried compiling Chromium have you..
Dmd, druntime and phobos do not compare in complexity to that. And that's with Google backing it.

On Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 17:49:56 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote:
> On Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 17:13:07 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote:
>> You guys are complete ignoring 90% of the post. It is not just about configuration.
>>
>> Regardless, I'll be back in another year to see what progress has been made. Good luck. I really do hope you guys can get your shit together and make D the top language! I'd like to actually use it for serious stuff one of these days(hopefully before my hair turns gray)
>
> Did you even look at Digger and DVM as was suggested above? They don't seem to fulfil your vision, but they do provide some of what you are asking for.

Again, the point is that one can't do it. We know it can be done.
It's about efficiency.

You are not accumulating the man hours it takes over the total
work time(the unexpected stuff that can take days to fix. Days
most people are not willing to even risk wasting if it is
possible).


If all this stuff was properly integrated into an ide like work
space specifically tailored to D development, then I'm sure D
would get more bites than it is.

Obviously it isn't a simple undertaking.

Lets suppose if 30 coders that come to this forum were on board.
Suppose one year was spend developing such an app that make it
very effective to not only develop in D but also help develop D.
Suppose it was just a super awesome and efficient IDE that solved
all the programmers problems.

Ok, Would that year be worth the "wasted time" on the IDE
considering what it can accomplish in the next 10+ years?

Is the investment worth it?

This is an "invest 10k$ and get 1M$ back" type of "scheme". But
in this case if done right it will actually happen. (e.g., invest
in the stock market on logical investments vs giving your money
to Burt & Bernie's Investment Firm.

I just see a bunch of wasted arguments about things on this
forum. If all that energy was captured and harnessed into
creating something that would increase productivity then it will
do so exponentially. (30 people spend 1 year to create something
that potentially millions will use every day for the next 10+
years. That's a 33,000 ROI... who would pass that up?)

Of course, maybe we can just use 10 people and about 3 months to
get a good approximation? Maybe eclipse could be developed to do
the job? Maybe Visual D could be extended to include built in bug
tracking, repository and versioning issues, collaboration, etc?

These questions can't be answered until people think there is a
problem. Maybe the real solution is just to scrap D and get
behind Go. Who knows until people honestly look at the underlying
problems that are preventing D from becoming mainstream(time is
and obvious one, but the more reason to get it done ASAP before
we all end up in the old folks home).

But I guess I digress! Some people just like to dig.

On Wednesday, 25 March 2015 at 03:30:19 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote:
> On Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 17:49:56 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 17:13:07 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote:
>>> You guys are complete ignoring 90% of the post. It is not just about configuration.
>>>
>>> Regardless, I'll be back in another year to see what progress has been made. Good luck. I really do hope you guys can get your shit together and make D the top language! I'd like to actually use it for serious stuff one of these days(hopefully before my hair turns gray)
>>
>> Did you even look at Digger and DVM as was suggested above? They don't seem to fulfil your vision, but they do provide some of what you are asking for.
>
> Again, the point is that one can't do it. We know it can be done.
> It's about efficiency.
>
> You are not accumulating the man hours it takes over the total
> work time(the unexpected stuff that can take days to fix. Days
> most people are not willing to even risk wasting if it is
> possible).
>
>
> If all this stuff was properly integrated into an ide like work
> space specifically tailored to D development, then I'm sure D
> would get more bites than it is.
>
> Obviously it isn't a simple undertaking.
>
> Lets suppose if 30 coders that come to this forum were on board.
> Suppose one year was spend developing such an app that make it
> very effective to not only develop in D but also help develop D.
> Suppose it was just a super awesome and efficient IDE that solved
> all the programmers problems.
>
> Ok, Would that year be worth the "wasted time" on the IDE
> considering what it can accomplish in the next 10+ years?
>
> Is the investment worth it?
>
> This is an "invest 10k$ and get 1M$ back" type of "scheme". But
> in this case if done right it will actually happen. (e.g., invest
> in the stock market on logical investments vs giving your money
> to Burt & Bernie's Investment Firm.
>
> I just see a bunch of wasted arguments about things on this
> forum. If all that energy was captured and harnessed into
> creating something that would increase productivity then it will
> do so exponentially. (30 people spend 1 year to create something
> that potentially millions will use every day for the next 10+
> years. That's a 33,000 ROI... who would pass that up?)
>
> Of course, maybe we can just use 10 people and about 3 months to
> get a good approximation? Maybe eclipse could be developed to do
> the job? Maybe Visual D could be extended to include built in bug
> tracking, repository and versioning issues, collaboration, etc?
>
> These questions can't be answered until people think there is a
> problem. Maybe the real solution is just to scrap D and get
> behind Go. Who knows until people honestly look at the underlying
> problems that are preventing D from becoming mainstream(time is
> and obvious one, but the more reason to get it done ASAP before
> we all end up in the old folks home).
>
> But I guess I digress! Some people just like to dig.

Here's a shovel to help you on your way...

Does an IDE exist for contributing to Go?

https://golang.org/doc/install/source

Hmm, looks like CLI might be the IDE of go developers.


And if you just want to contribute to its ecosystem with Go progs?

https://golang.org/doc/code.html

Well this looks very similar to D + DUB.

In fact D is better because it doesn't dictate any one way. You can choose whatever works for you. I'm using Make, CMake and dub...I'm becoming addicted to DUB for rapid prototyping.


If you really want this, you could champion it yourself. I'm sure the D IDE development projects could use as many hands as possible.

bye,
lobo

On 03/23/2015 05:34 PM, Jake The Baker wrote:
> If D had an ide that could do the following I think development and testing could be better managed.
> 
> 1. IDE that works with a centralized server to be able to change D versions at a drop of a time. e.g., click "Master" and it checks to see if you have the latest, if not it downloads it, configures it, and sets it up hands free to be used. (If it requires any interaction to work then it is a bug)
> 
> 2. Patches, bugs, and everything else can be accessed through this IDE. Collaboration can be made between groups of people and individuals. Announcements could be made by head honchos. (In fact, this software could be more generic and used by anyone for any purpose of collaboration in programming... e.g. with php).
> 
> One can see open bugs, issues, workarounds, etc at a click.
> 
> 3. Projects could be collaborated on easily with people being able to
> "watch"(RD) another persons session(say for debugging help or whatever).
> 
> 4. The ability to connect resources to projects. e.g. insert a note over a function that links to the D documentation about a bug.

Are there IDE's that do this?  As far as I know, Xcode does not, Qt Creator does not.


I think you're getting a lot of push back because these ideas don't seem reasonable, especially in comparison to the infrastructure of other large-ish open source projects.


-- 
Paul O'Neil
Github / IRC: todayman

On Wednesday, 25 March 2015 at 04:20:03 UTC, Paul O'Neil wrote:
> On 03/23/2015 05:34 PM, Jake The Baker wrote:
>> If D had an ide that could do the following I think development and
>> testing could be better managed.
>> 
>> 1. IDE that works with a centralized server to be able to change D
>> versions at a drop of a time. e.g., click "Master" and it checks to see
>> if you have the latest, if not it downloads it, configures it, and sets
>> it up hands free to be used. (If it requires any interaction to work
>> then it is a bug)
>> 
>> 2. Patches, bugs, and everything else can be accessed through this IDE.
>> Collaboration can be made between groups of people and individuals.
>> Announcements could be made by head honchos. (In fact, this software
>> could be more generic and used by anyone for any purpose of
>> collaboration in programming... e.g. with php).
>> 
>> One can see open bugs, issues, workarounds, etc at a click.
>> 
>> 3. Projects could be collaborated on easily with people being able to
>> "watch"(RD) another persons session(say for debugging help or whatever).
>> 
>> 4. The ability to connect resources to projects. e.g. insert a note over
>> a function that links to the D documentation about a bug.
>
> Are there IDE's that do this?  As far as I know, Xcode does not, Qt
> Creator does not.
>
>
> I think you're getting a lot of push back because these ideas don't seem
> reasonable, especially in comparison to the infrastructure of other
> large-ish open source projects.

And this is exactly why things won't change. There was one time
we didn't have a space shuttle. There was a lot of people saying
the world was flat, At some point the computer you are working on
was just a concept that many people said couldn't be done.

Do *you know what progress is?

Seriously, do you believe that just because Qt, Xcode, VS, etc do
not have such features that such features are useless or simply
not possible? Because that is what you are effectively saying
with your argument.

This is not a BW game. It is Gray. The question isn't if these
features exist already or should be implemented. We know they
will improve performance and enhance collaboration. The question
is how much will it matter. But if you think it's BW then we
can't ever get to that question and nothing will ever change.
(Because you are either a black or a white. (avoids change or
embraces it))

If you want to go with the BW game then we can't even begin to
solve the problem because there is no open discussion that will
lead to true solutions. (I only posted stuff that is suppose to
be a jumping off point)

The Catholic Church has that mentality... as do most
Catholics(not a coincidence). Thousands of years of keeping
progress to a minimum will do that.
(I'm not getting into a religious discussion here. This is not
bashing Catholics. It is simply a well known fact that most(all?)
modern religions are anti-technological-progress because when you
are dealing with the supernatural it's kinda a moot point)

> Do *you know what progress is?
http://arsdnet.net/this-week-in-d/mar-22.html

Author say's it's been a slow week, but you can watch these to get a better feel for the pace of D.

> Seriously, do you believe that just because Qt, Xcode, VS, etc do not have such features that such features are useless or
> simply not possible?

Maybe you should ask "If none of these large well funded companies have set out to create such features, should it really be expected of a free open source project like D?"


So, although I don't speak for the D community, I suspect that things are the same as in any open source/free project: "Step Up or Shut Up".

At the last DConf though, I remember it being said that what the D language really needs is corporate backing/funding. Until that happens, I would think it foolhardy to expect any large scale changes in how things work here..

On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 03:30:17 +0000, Jake The Baker wrote:

> Lets suppose if 30 coders that come to this forum were on board. Suppose one year was spend developing such an app that make it very effective to not only develop in D but also help develop D. Suppose it was just a super awesome and efficient IDE that solved all the programmers problems.

and the only problem with that IDE is that nobody uses it. 'cause people comes with their habits, and they used to their existing environments. so that brilliant IDE is a wasted time, 'cause it will never have a big userbase.

On Wed, 25 Mar 2015 16:56:32 +0000, Jake The Baker wrote:

> Do *you know what progress is?

one important part of "progress" is not wasting time on useless things.