On 06/18/2015 10:30 AM, ketmar wrote:
>
> i never talked about binaries. what i'm talking about is that dub is not
> a package manager at all.
>
> how can i get a list of available packages? how can i search by package
> name or in package descriptions? using web site is not an option, that
> functionality should be built-in.

Those sound like excellent ideas for new pull requests.
https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dub/compare

On 06/18/2015 09:40 AM, Craig Dillabaugh wrote:
>
> Based on the the discussion on the forum it appears that the manner in
> which this decision has been executed has [...]  ... in addition
> to almost starting an OT religious holy war.
>

That was just an unrelated drive-by-spamming by a random troll with a rather weak attempt to make his (their? ;) ) trolling *appear* somehow, kind-of, related to the message he replied to.

On 06/18/2015 10:43 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>
> One thing I'll be trying to work on with Martin is a directory under
> tools/ that contains reasonably stable release building scripts for all
> platforms.
>

What happened to the one I contributed last year? If there's bitrot or other issues that needs addressing, then by all means, either ping me @ GitHub or email me at "nick1" @ my domain name in this message's header. Both are set up to go straight to my phone.

On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 14:43:15 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>[...]

Yes, D need more people, more sponsors, the most...
Unfortunately, the development of language is carried out slowly enough bug fixes too slowly. I learn more D six months and I have to admit that whatever you do, it all looks very slowly and slightly.
We need more people, but no one knows where to look for them :)
And, yes, you definitely need a second release czar!
More people for the development of D. We need to look for them promptly, otherwise the development will go is still very slow.

On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 02:22:13 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:

> I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars? I know nightly builds have been discussed for years, and it would be great to take advantage of the multi-platform infrastructure of the current autotester for it, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

In addition, I recommend taking a look at, providing feedback, and futhering the development of reggae [1] [2] [3] [4].

[1] Repository - https://github.com/atilaneves/reggae
[2] Initial Post - http://forum.dlang.org/post/ranqlmrjornlvopsuris@forum.dlang.org
[3] Phobos Test - http://forum.dlang.org/post/kjbmzcnhhzlimfkjcsan@forum.dlang.org
[4] Further Enhancements - http://forum.dlang.org/post/znaffgxodfpnjwggpwok@forum.dlang.org

In D, we have this extremely powerful, expressive, and even beautiful language for describing and automating the most complex of processes, yet we resort to headaches like makefiles to automate our own work.  It's seems asinine.  I threw away make as soon as I discovered rdmd.  No makefiles, no json, no new file format to learn, no new syntax to learn, no new tool to learn, no external platform-specific dependencies;  just the one tool we know and love: the D programming language.

If we want more D progrmmers involved in the building, verification, and packaging of our core tools, let's do it in D.

Mike

On 06/18/2015 04:43 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>
> About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated fruitless
> attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in person, privately, is
> of course the right way and the one I've tried through all channels I
> could think of.

I think the first post was more adequate than the second one. Basically, a more eloquent version of the following would have sufficed:

> Glad to hear that. However, the need for two other release managers is still there.
>
> The role of Release Manager and "This Week In D" are the two somewhat special
> in the community: regularity  is crucial. If we have no release manager and no
> contingency plan, we can't release.

On 6/18/15 9:19 AM, Timon Gehr wrote:
> On 06/18/2015 04:43 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>
>> About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated fruitless
>> attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in person, privately, is
>> of course the right way and the one I've tried through all channels I
>> could think of.
>
> I think the first post was more adequate than the second one. Basically,
> a more eloquent version of the following would have sufficed:
>
>> Glad to hear that. However, the need for two other release managers is
>> still there.
>>
>> The role of Release Manager and "This Week In D" are the two somewhat
>> special
>> in the community: regularity  is crucial. If we have no release
>> manager and no
>> contingency plan, we can't release.

I definitely am sorry for not handling this better. What I should have done in retrospect is to resume efforts to reach Martin privately after evidence came about that he's alive and well, then discuss reasonable communication expectations with him, and only after that resume the public search for more release czars. I apologize to Martin and the community for not taking that course of action.

We definitely need to move forward to having more release czars, which reduces the demands on each. I'll do my best to learn the ropes and document the process.


Andrei

On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 16:41:51 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> On 6/18/15 9:19 AM, Timon Gehr wrote:
>> On 06/18/2015 04:43 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>>
>>> About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated fruitless
>>> attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in person, privately, is
>>> of course the right way and the one I've tried through all channels I
>>> could think of.
>>
>> I think the first post was more adequate than the second one. Basically,
>> a more eloquent version of the following would have sufficed:
>>
>>> Glad to hear that. However, the need for two other release managers is
>>> still there.
>>>
>>> The role of Release Manager and "This Week In D" are the two somewhat
>>> special
>>> in the community: regularity  is crucial. If we have no release
>>> manager and no
>>> contingency plan, we can't release.
>
> I definitely am sorry for not handling this better. What I should have done in retrospect is to resume efforts to reach Martin privately after evidence came about that he's alive and well, then discuss reasonable communication expectations with him, and only after that resume the public search for more release czars. I apologize to Martin and the community for not taking that course of action.
>
> We definitely need to move forward to having more release czars, which reduces the demands on each. I'll do my best to learn the ropes and document the process.

>
> Andrei

Respect - both for having high standards, and for this message.


Laeeth.

On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 16:41:51 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> I definitely am sorry for not handling this better. What I should have done in retrospect is to resume efforts to reach Martin privately after evidence came about that he's alive and well, then discuss reasonable communication expectations with him, and only after that resume the public search for more release czars. I apologize to Martin and the community for not taking that course of action.

Now you are talking! Thanks for being humble enough, I was a bit scared for your second post, but now I think everything is fine! :)

Matheus.

On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 14:43:15 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> Thanks all for the feedback; a follow up is in order seeing as there are a few misunderstandings of the situation.
>
> First off, framing this matter as impinging on someone's vacation is a misinterpretation. Taking time off has nothing to do with it - anyone should. Just Walter, myself, the "This Week in D" author, and the release manager please let us know so things can be planned accordingly.
>
> To thrive, we need to expand the inner circle of folks who are closely involved with D to the extent the community knows why they're missing when they're missing. Currently that circle includes only Walter and myself; if either of us would go dark for weeks without the other (and others) knowing, that'd be worrisome.
>
> To wit, I wrote this to Martin and Walter on May 31st:
>
> ====
> Today is May 31st, so we're entering the last month of H1. I'd like to get an early start on updating the vision document, and before creating yet another rambling thread on the forum I thought we should start between the three of us.
>
> What do you guys think would be the main points to attack in H2? Martin, it's particularly important to hear from you.
> ====
>
> I hope it's clearer that it was quite unsettling to not hear back about that or anything else.
>
> Regarding the volunteer vs. paid employee aspect - clearly that's a problem. All I can do now is work on the foundation and hope to find sponsors that would allow us to pay the release manager, the keeper of "This Week in D" and others.
>
> About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated fruitless attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in person, privately, is of course the right way and the one I've tried through all channels I could think of.
>
> Building the process is a difficult and very important job. It stands to reason, then, that we need several folks who can do it and cover contingencies. Martin and I are in talks about building this release together; it would be great if we could get a broader participation.
>
> There's one more note of interest:
>
>> This is off-putting for me as someone who is getting steadily more
>> involved in D, what other implicit contracts do you think we've all
>> signed?
>
> None, of course. Far as I can tell the dynamics are as follows:
>
> * Walter and I can be counted on being around barring announced absences or exceptional circumstances.
>
> * Adam D. Ruppe, Walter, and I discussed that there will be consistency of "This Week in D". Announced outages are fine, "I'll do it when/if I get to it" is not.
>
> * The release managers should be counted on for planning and reliably carrying the release. I am now sorry I wasn't clearer about that.
>
> * There are a few folks with particularly important roles: Iain (GDC), Kai (LDC), Brad (autotester), and Vladimir (forum and a variety of tools). If any of these would suddenly leave, the community would be in difficulty. They work independently and I wish we found ways to pay them and coordinate better with them, but there is no implied or express expectation.
>
> * There are a number of heavy-hitting contributors (such as Daniel, Kenji, and about a dozen others) who have a strong positive impact. Again there is no expectation they're around.
>
> * Up-and-coming contributors are always welcome and we should improve our tooling to make it easy for anyone to contribute.
>
> Probably the best action item is this:
>
>> I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and
>> infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars? I know nightly
>> builds have been discussed for years, and it would be great to take
>> advantage of the multi-platform infrastructure of the current
>> autotester for it, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.
>
> Yah, ideally the autotester would just build the release as well for each platform on the same machines it's using. Sadly Brad wouldn't want to take that task.
>
> One thing I'll be trying to work on with Martin is a directory under tools/ that contains reasonably stable release building scripts for all platforms.
>
>
> Andrei

It sounds to me like you are legitimately doing everything you can, that is great!!!! Without people like you, things don't get done.

Just remember, some people need a break from things, get upset over stupid immature stuff or misunderstandings. Remember, some people are more emotionally equipped, or less, depending on your perspective, to deal with "things"(life, arguments, etc).

My gut reaction was that you simply overreacted thinking either he jumped the boat or got hit by one. Chances are neither happened since those are the extremes(of course, you were hoping for one or the other so your "disappointment" would be unfounded).

I would simply say, relax! ;) Solve the problem and move on! Don't get caught up in it all. Find another *whatever* his job was, someone to help him with the work load, or talk to him about whatever got his panties in a wad.

In any case, true communication is the best line of defense against these problems.

Which, I'm sure you agree and which is what upset you in the first place: Since he failed to stay in communication. But this came from some previous issues with communication which upset his feathers or whatever.

Anyways, not everyone's the same! It's a good thing!