On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 07:26:13 UTC, rumbu wrote:
> On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 04:38:36 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote:
>> On 25/09/15 4:11 PM, Sebastiaan Koppe wrote:
>>> On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 03:00:12 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
>>>> I do kind of wonder though what MS would do if the majority of Windows
>>>> programmers really got a taste of how great the command line is and
>>>> started complaining to MS en masse about how MS needs to have a proper
>>>> command line - preferably even port over something like bash or zsh
>>>> with all of the fantastic tools that come with that. I don't see any
>>>> reason why they couldn't do that, but they're completely focused on
>>>> GUIs and doing their own thing.
>>>>
>>>> - Jonathan M Davis
>>>
>>> Probably nothing, since they have PowerShell
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_PowerShell#Comparison_of_cmdlets_with_similar_commands
>>>
>>
>> Unfortunately yup that is there replacement.
>> Funny thing, the only people really using it are networkers. Not programmers. Who would have thought?
>> Even though it is C# like and supports .net libs.
>
> This is not funny even for an Windows admin. Managing Microsoft Exchange is done 90% from command line, and our mail admin is complaining constantly for the lack of desktop tools (we even bought some gui tools for that). Luckily, the last Exchange version has a nice web interface for administration. Command line is limited for visual tasks like adding and resizing pictures of the employees in the address book, for example.
>
> I don't buy this, command line is something obsolete compared to any gui/web interface, at least in Windows world.

Perhaps you've been very lucky with the quality of the built-for-purpose GUI tools you've had to use?

> Starting Visual Studio on my machine takes 2 seconds,

What magic are you doing to achieve this? It has always taken >30 seconds on mine.

> i don't buy either the fact it's easier to write your own batch file to compile code instead of clicking some checkboxes or switching instantly between Debug/Release versions of your code.

It's about trading a tiny amount of convenience for a much larger payoff in control, simplicity, extensibility and reproducibility. There's are middle ways as well, like using one of the many build tools out there, perhaps with some IDE integration if you really must.

> And I don't use dub, last time I checked, it's messing with my AppData folder.

"I don't use this program, it's storing internally used data in the folder specifically designated for programs to store internally used data in" whut?

On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 08:53:41 UTC, John Colvin wrote:
> On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 07:26:13 UTC, rumbu wrote:
>> Starting Visual Studio on my machine takes 2 seconds,
>
> What magic are you doing to achieve this? It has always taken
> >30 seconds on mine.

LOL. On my work computer (which is no slouch), it takes something like two or three minutes to actually be usable, where it's frozen, saying "not responding." gvim, on the other hand, starts instantly.

- Jonathan M Davis

On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 08:59:17 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 08:53:41 UTC, John Colvin wrote:
>> On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 07:26:13 UTC, rumbu wrote:
>>> Starting Visual Studio on my machine takes 2 seconds,
>>
>> What magic are you doing to achieve this? It has always taken
>> >30 seconds on mine.
>
> LOL. On my work computer (which is no slouch), it takes something like two or three minutes to actually be usable, where it's frozen, saying "not responding." gvim, on the other hand, starts instantly.
>
> - Jonathan M Davis

Yeah that >30 seconds was probably being generous. It's quite rare to see <60.

On 23/09/2015 22:33, Paolo Invernizzi wrote:
>
> For git and file organization, nope, I still prefer to use them outside
> the IDE...
>
> Cheers!
> ---
> Paolo

But are you using command-line git, or a git graphical frontend like Git For Windows from Github?

-- 
Bruno Medeiros
https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros

On 25/09/2015 09:53, John Colvin wrote:
>> And I don't use dub, last time I checked, it's messing with my AppData
>> folder.
>
> "I don't use this program, it's storing internally used data in the
> folder specifically designated for programs to store internally used
> data in" whut?

Yeah I hate such programs too... even more than the ones that create temporary files in the system temporary folder !!
</sarcasm>

-- 
Bruno Medeiros
https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros

On 24/09/2015 06:04, rumbu wrote:
> Despite the fact that Mono-D is better than VisualD at syntax
> highlighting and code completion, it is very slow for large files and it
> crashes very often on Windows (this is not Mono-D fault, but Xamarins's).

I wonder if this is related to the GDB release one has in Windows? DDT has a similar problem in that some GDB releases work better than others (for example the Cygwin GDB doesn't work properly).

Ideally a bad GDB release / version should never crash or freeze the IDE itself - but otherwise, it definitely can still affect the debugging experience.

-- 
Bruno Medeiros
https://twitter.com/brunodomedeiros

On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 09:05:31 UTC, John Colvin wrote:
> On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 08:59:17 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
>> On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 08:53:41 UTC, John Colvin wrote:
>>> On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 07:26:13 UTC, rumbu wrote:
>>>> Starting Visual Studio on my machine takes 2 seconds,
>>>
>>> What magic are you doing to achieve this? It has always taken
>>> >30 seconds on mine.
>>
>> LOL. On my work computer (which is no slouch), it takes something like two or three minutes to actually be usable, where it's frozen, saying "not responding." gvim, on the other hand, starts instantly.
>>
>> - Jonathan M Davis
>
> Yeah that >30 seconds was probably being generous. It's quite rare to see <60.

Sorry, I was wrong, below 2 seconds, measured using Passmark AppTimer:

Visual Studio 2013 Ultimate - 5 executions
C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio 12.0\Common7\IDE\devenv.exe - 5 executions
1.3741
1.2808
1.3419
1.2802
1.3440

Loading a complex C# solution (11 projects - ASP.NET web server, Silverlight client, Android client, various libs, 60 kloc) - 9 seconds.

Windows 10 64 bit, Intel Core i7 3612QM, 16G RAM, SSD.

Now, comparing this to the timings you posted, I understand why you prefer to use the command line and text editors. Me, I don't have *any* reason to go back in time 20 years ago, I hate that black & white thing on my screen.

On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 08:53:41 UTC, John Colvin wrote:
> On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 07:26:13 UTC, rumbu wrote:
>
>> And I don't use dub, last time I checked, it's messing with my AppData folder.
>
> "I don't use this program, it's storing internally used data in the folder specifically designated for programs to store internally used data in" whut?

The AppData\Roaming folder is synchronized automatically on our domain controller (this is normal behaviour). Since dub is storing all dependencies in this folder and each user profile storage is limited, I'd prefer to have control over this space. More than that comparing thousands of source code files at each login/logout it's not a nice thing. When I login to another computer, all dub data is replicated on this computer.

I hardly consider source code files as "internal used data".

That's why I said it's messing with my AppData folder.

On 25/09/15 10:57 PM, rumbu wrote:
> On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 08:53:41 UTC, John Colvin wrote:
>> On Friday, 25 September 2015 at 07:26:13 UTC, rumbu wrote:
>>
>>> And I don't use dub, last time I checked, it's messing with my
>>> AppData folder.
>>
>> "I don't use this program, it's storing internally used data in the
>> folder specifically designated for programs to store internally used
>> data in" whut?
>
> The AppData\Roaming folder is synchronized automatically on our domain
> controller (this is normal behaviour). Since dub is storing all
> dependencies in this folder and each user profile storage is limited,
> I'd prefer to have control over this space. More than that comparing
> thousands of source code files at each login/logout it's not a nice
> thing. When I login to another computer, all dub data is replicated on
> this computer.
>
> I hardly consider source code files as "internal used data".
>
> That's why I said it's messing with my AppData folder.

I suppose because it is only effecting you more or less and it is not very hard to do, you could create a custom dub binary that uses AppData\Local instead.

On 09/25/2015 12:45 PM, rumbu wrote:
> ... Me, I don't have *any* reason to go back in time
> 20 years ago,

I'd advise to stop making those ridiculous and disrespectful statements. It's slightly annoying and does not add anything to your point.

> I hate that black & white thing on my screen.
>

You have made it very clear that your bar for calling something an "IDE" isn't syntax highlighting.