Fat Libraries vs. Programming Skills?

http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2008/01/0801dewarschonberg.html

-manfred

Manfred Nowak wrote:
> Fat Libraries vs. Programming Skills?
> 
> http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2008/01/0801dewarschonberg.html
> 
> -manfred

As a current CS undergrad, I can say that I learned 90% of what I know about PROGRAMMING outside of class (either on an internship, an open-source project, or just messing around and being nerdy), and the other 10% from two of my classes (one high school AP class that focused on data structures, and one class on shell scripting and practical computer skills).

I think Java isn't necessarily a bad teaching tool for the reasons they mention, but I think a lower-level imperative language should come first. Java should be introduced after Smalltalk or something to show many of the advantages of safe, happy, VM programming and why object-oriented programming leads to good software design.

The link doesnt work

Robert Fraser wrote:
> Manfred Nowak wrote:
>> Fat Libraries vs. Programming Skills?
>>
>> http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2008/01/0801dewarschonberg.html
>>
>> -manfred
>
> As a current CS undergrad, I can say that I learned 90% of what I know about PROGRAMMING outside of class (either on an internship, an open-source project, or just messing around and being nerdy), and the other 10% from two of my classes (one high school AP class that focused on data structures, and one class on shell scripting and practical computer skills).
>
> I think Java isn't necessarily a bad teaching tool for the reasons they mention, but I think a lower-level imperative language should come first. Java should be introduced after Smalltalk or something to show many of the advantages of safe, happy, VM programming and why object-oriented programming leads to good software design.
>
>

Neither for me. :(

Adil wrote:
> The link doesnt work
> 
> Robert Fraser wrote:
>> Manfred Nowak wrote:
>>> Fat Libraries vs. Programming Skills?
>>>
>>> http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2008/01/0801dewarschonberg.html
>>>
>>> -manfred
>>
>> As a current CS undergrad, I can say that I learned 90% of what I know about PROGRAMMING outside of class (either on an internship, an open-source project, or just messing around and being nerdy), and the other 10% from two of my classes (one high school AP class that focused on data structures, and one class on shell scripting and practical computer skills).
>>
>> I think Java isn't necessarily a bad teaching tool for the reasons they mention, but I think a lower-level imperative language should come first. Java should be introduced after Smalltalk or something to show many of the advantages of safe, happy, VM programming and why object-oriented programming leads to good software design.
>>
>>

Ary Borenszweig wrote

> Neither for me. :(

I have rechecked the link. No problems here.

-manfred

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:37:40 +0400, Manfred Nowak <svv1999@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Ary Borenszweig wrote
>
>> Neither for me. :(
>
> I have rechecked the link. No problems here.
>
> -manfred
>

I'm getting a :

Network Error (dns_server_failure)

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Adil wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:37:40 +0400, Manfred Nowak <svv1999@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Ary Borenszweig wrote
>>
>>> Neither for me. :(
>>
>> I have rechecked the link. No problems here.
>>
>> -manfred
>>
> 
> I'm getting a :
> 
> Network Error (dns_server_failure)

Try:

http://137.241.248.34/CrossTalk/2008/01/0801DewarSchonberg.html


Sean

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:54:55 +0400, Sean Kelly <sean@f4.ca> wrote:

> Adil wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:37:40 +0400, Manfred Nowak <svv1999@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ary Borenszweig wrote
>>>
>>>> Neither for me. :(
>>>
>>> I have rechecked the link. No problems here.
>>>
>>> -manfred
>>>
>>  I'm getting a :
>>  Network Error (dns_server_failure)
>
> Try:
>
> http://137.241.248.34/CrossTalk/2008/01/0801DewarSchonberg.html
>
>
> Sean
>

Nope. :

Network Error (tcp_error)

A communication error occurred: ""


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Adil wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:54:55 +0400, Sean Kelly <sean@f4.ca> wrote:
> 
>> Adil wrote:
>>> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:37:40 +0400, Manfred Nowak <svv1999@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ary Borenszweig wrote
>>>>
>>>>> Neither for me. :(
>>>>
>>>> I have rechecked the link. No problems here.
>>>>
>>>> -manfred
>>>>
>>>  I'm getting a :
>>>  Network Error (dns_server_failure)
>>
>> Try:
>>
>> http://137.241.248.34/CrossTalk/2008/01/0801DewarSchonberg.html
>>
>>
>> Sean
>>
> 
> Nope. :
> 
> Network Error (tcp_error)
> 
> A communication error occurred: ""

It's a military IP address, perhaps your firewall has it blocked?


Sean

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:44:22 +0400, Sean Kelly <sean@f4.ca> wrote:

> Adil wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:54:55 +0400, Sean Kelly <sean@f4.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Adil wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:37:40 +0400, Manfred Nowak <svv1999@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ary Borenszweig wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>> Neither for me. :(
>>>>>
>>>>> I have rechecked the link. No problems here.
>>>>>
>>>>> -manfred
>>>>>
>>>>  I'm getting a :
>>>>  Network Error (dns_server_failure)
>>>
>>> Try:
>>>
>>> http://137.241.248.34/CrossTalk/2008/01/0801DewarSchonberg.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Sean
>>>
>>  Nope. :
>>  Network Error (tcp_error)
>>  A communication error occurred: ""
>
> It's a military IP address, perhaps your firewall has it blocked?
>
>
> Sean
>

Yes, youre right. Although other .mil addresses seem to be working. Is the article posted somewhere else as well?

There's another articles that seems to be along the same lines :

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/12/03.html

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