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January 31, 2010
TDPL a bad idea?
Did anyone watch Shark Tank on TV this week? Captain Ice Cream was 
rejected by all of the sharks and sent packing because he wanted to sell 
a franchise that wasn't. One of the sharks said to him something along 
the lines of, "a franchise offering is a package deal for a product that 
is a well-oiled machine... all the kinks worked out". Or was it the Legal 
Grind, coffee shop lawyering, franchise that they said that to? Of the 
Legal Grind, the sharks said: so you've been doing this for umpteen years 
and haven't made any real money and now you want to offer a franchise?

Why a killing of trees for a manual that changes daily and can be on the 
internet? What is the point of TDPL? To make money? I don't see any value 
in a set of pages that are a manual for a constantly changing and 
unestablished computer programming language. Can't yaz save the trees and 
offer it for sale on the web to anyone who wants to pay for it? It's easy 
to setup a PayPal website (though I think D is far from that if ever). I 
don't see this thing selling in bookstores. A hard copy of an already 
obsolete specification? If it's just charitable contribution from long 
time afficionados, why not just .org and ask for contributions and not 
kill trees?

"TDPL: we want money"? Msg me when it is "TDPL: the well-oiled machine". 
(Note I didn't say "the well-oiled MONEY machine).
January 31, 2010
Re: TDPL a bad idea?
> 
> Why a killing of trees for a manual that changes daily and can be on the 
> internet? What is the point of TDPL? To make money? I don't see any value 
> in a set of pages that are a manual for a constantly changing and 
> unestablished computer programming language. Can't yaz save the trees and 
> offer it for sale on the web to anyone who wants to pay for it? It's easy 
> to setup a PayPal website (though I think D is far from that if ever). I 
> don't see this thing selling in bookstores. A hard copy of an already 
> obsolete specification? If it's just charitable contribution from long 
> time afficionados, why not just .org and ask for contributions and not 
> kill trees?
> 

This might actually be a good point. I have a thought or 2 about it. A reason to save trees:
- TDPL is changing, true, and online format is much easier to update, navigate, search, and eco friendly. TDPL would be obsolete (for current version of language) before it is published.
- I guess, those couple of trees destined to give its bodies to make paper for TDPL will do more good for the world making O2.
- and authors of it won't be corrupted by money they could earn by selling it, so they can continue to give their knowledge and time for free 

On the other hand:
- some people love to hold paper in ther hands and read while not in front of computer. there are many much more comfortable and healthier places you can do that.
- some people will find it useful no matter it is not the latest release, same as D1. every tool has its user. not everybody will use most current version of language, as some are happy with old one as well.
- 'to make money' is just as valid reason for publishing and selling TDPL as is  'to make C++ programmers life easier' for making and giving away D language for free for all people, including damn leeching bitching tree lovers
- you can easily kill a tree - it doesn't kills back. try that will polar bears.
- TDPL wont have 3e17+ copies to print, so you can relax. amazon forests wont disapear thanks to andrei and walter (green peace wont organize protests to destroy D as eco hazard)
- they can always use recycled paper for printing, like old c++ manuals  (not to mention PHP, as it is already more used as toilet paper in its original form)

that covers the most of it...
January 31, 2010
Re: TDPL a bad idea?
"John D" <jdean@googling.com> wrote in message 
news:hk381s$1es1$1@digitalmars.com...
> Did anyone watch Shark Tank on TV this week? Captain Ice Cream was 
> rejected by all of the sharks and sent packing because he wanted to sell a 
> franchise that wasn't. One of the sharks said to him something along the 
> lines of, "a franchise offering is a package deal for a product that is a 
> well-oiled machine... all the kinks worked out". Or was it the Legal 
> Grind, coffee shop lawyering, franchise that they said that to? Of the 
> Legal Grind, the sharks said: so you've been doing this for umpteen years 
> and haven't made any real money and now you want to offer a franchise?
>
> Why a killing of trees for a manual that changes daily and can be on the 
> internet? What is the point of TDPL? To make money? I don't see any value 
> in a set of pages that are a manual for a constantly changing and 
> unestablished computer programming language. Can't yaz save the trees and 
> offer it for sale on the web to anyone who wants to pay for it? It's easy 
> to setup a PayPal website (though I think D is far from that if ever). I 
> don't see this thing selling in bookstores. A hard copy of an already 
> obsolete specification? If it's just charitable contribution from long 
> time afficionados, why not just .org and ask for contributions and not 
> kill trees?
>
> "TDPL: we want money"? Msg me when it is "TDPL: the well-oiled machine". 
> (Note I didn't say "the well-oiled MONEY machine).
>

Ordinarily I wouldn't think much of this, but considering some of this guy's 
most recent postings over in "Google's Go", I'd say it's about time to 
consider instituting a NG ban system. We were (maybe) able to chase away 
superdan, but who knows how persistent other such trolls like this one will 
prove to be.
January 31, 2010
Re: TDPL a bad idea?
"Nick Sabalausky" <a@a.a> wrote in message 
news:hk3kq6$268i$1@digitalmars.com...
> "John D" <jdean@googling.com> wrote in message 
> news:hk381s$1es1$1@digitalmars.com...
>> Did anyone watch Shark Tank on TV this week? Captain Ice Cream was 
>> rejected by all of the sharks and sent packing because he wanted to 
>> sell a franchise that wasn't. One of the sharks said to him something 
>> along the lines of, "a franchise offering is a package deal for a 
>> product that is a well-oiled machine... all the kinks worked out". Or 
>> was it the Legal Grind, coffee shop lawyering, franchise that they 
>> said that to? Of the Legal Grind, the sharks said: so you've been 
>> doing this for umpteen years and haven't made any real money and now 
>> you want to offer a franchise?
>>
>> Why a killing of trees for a manual that changes daily and can be on 
>> the internet? What is the point of TDPL? To make money? I don't see 
>> any value in a set of pages that are a manual for a constantly 
>> changing and unestablished computer programming language. Can't yaz 
>> save the trees and offer it for sale on the web to anyone who wants to 
>> pay for it? It's easy to setup a PayPal website (though I think D is 
>> far from that if ever). I don't see this thing selling in bookstores. 
>> A hard copy of an already obsolete specification? If it's just 
>> charitable contribution from long time afficionados, why not just .org 
>> and ask for contributions and not kill trees?
>>
>> "TDPL: we want money"? Msg me when it is "TDPL: the well-oiled 
>> machine". (Note I didn't say "the well-oiled MONEY machine).
>>
>
> Ordinarily I wouldn't think much of this, but considering some of this 
> guy's most recent postings over in "Google's Go", I'd say it's about 
> time to consider instituting a NG ban system. We were (maybe) able to 
> chase away superdan, but who knows how persistent other such trolls 
> like this one will prove to be.
>
I am interested in your "ban system". What is your name and address?
January 31, 2010
Re: TDPL a bad idea?
Bane wrote:
>> Why a killing of trees for a manual that changes daily and can be on the 
>> internet? What is the point of TDPL? To make money? I don't see any value 
>> in a set of pages that are a manual for a constantly changing and 
>> unestablished computer programming language. Can't yaz save the trees and 
>> offer it for sale on the web to anyone who wants to pay for it? It's easy 
>> to setup a PayPal website (though I think D is far from that if ever). I 
>> don't see this thing selling in bookstores. A hard copy of an already 
>> obsolete specification? If it's just charitable contribution from long 
>> time afficionados, why not just .org and ask for contributions and not 
>> kill trees?
>>
> 
> This might actually be a good point. I have a thought or 2 about it. A reason to save trees:
>  - TDPL is changing, true, and online format is much easier to update, navigate, search, and eco friendly. TDPL would be obsolete (for current version of language) before it is published.

When TDPL is published D2 will be frozen.  That's the whole point.

-Lars
January 31, 2010
Re: TDPL a bad idea?
Lars T. Kyllingstad Wrote:

> Bane wrote:
> >> Why a killing of trees for a manual that changes daily and can be on the 
> >> internet? What is the point of TDPL? To make money? I don't see any value 
> >> in a set of pages that are a manual for a constantly changing and 
> >> unestablished computer programming language. Can't yaz save the trees and 
> >> offer it for sale on the web to anyone who wants to pay for it? It's easy 
> >> to setup a PayPal website (though I think D is far from that if ever). I 
> >> don't see this thing selling in bookstores. A hard copy of an already 
> >> obsolete specification? If it's just charitable contribution from long 
> >> time afficionados, why not just .org and ask for contributions and not 
> >> kill trees?
> >>
> > 
> > This might actually be a good point. I have a thought or 2 about it. A reason to save trees:
> >  - TDPL is changing, true, and online format is much easier to update, navigate, search, and eco friendly. TDPL would be obsolete (for current version of language) before it is published.
> 
> When TDPL is published D2 will be frozen.  That's the whole point.
> 
> -Lars

Aha! What about... D3 ? :)
January 31, 2010
Re: TDPL a bad idea?
On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:27:39 +0100, Bane  
<branimir.milosavljevic@gmail.com> wrote:

> Lars T. Kyllingstad Wrote:
>
>> Bane wrote:
>> >> Why a killing of trees for a manual that changes daily and can be on  
>> the
>> >> internet? What is the point of TDPL? To make money? I don't see any  
>> value
>> >> in a set of pages that are a manual for a constantly changing and
>> >> unestablished computer programming language. Can't yaz save the  
>> trees and
>> >> offer it for sale on the web to anyone who wants to pay for it? It's  
>> easy
>> >> to setup a PayPal website (though I think D is far from that if  
>> ever). I
>> >> don't see this thing selling in bookstores. A hard copy of an already
>> >> obsolete specification? If it's just charitable contribution from  
>> long
>> >> time afficionados, why not just .org and ask for contributions and  
>> not
>> >> kill trees?
>> >>
>> >
>> > This might actually be a good point. I have a thought or 2 about it.  
>> A reason to save trees:
>> >  - TDPL is changing, true, and online format is much easier to  
>> update, navigate, search, and eco friendly. TDPL would be obsolete (for  
>> current version of language) before it is published.
>>
>> When TDPL is published D2 will be frozen.  That's the whole point.
>>
>> -Lars
>
> Aha! What about... D3 ? :)

Will probably come about eventually, but it is an expressed goal to have
a long period to stabilize and polish D2 first.

-- 
Simen
January 31, 2010
Re: TDPL a bad idea?
Hello Bane,

> Lars T. Kyllingstad Wrote:
> 
>> When TDPL is published D2 will be frozen.  That's the whole point.
>> 
>> -Lars
>> 
> Aha! What about... D3 ? :)
> 

TDPL 2e

And FWIW, I'm in the lets kill trees camp.

p.s. Why doesn't anyone ever bring up the power requirements for reading 
digital docs? Making a book is a one time investment, reading a file requiters 
continues power.

--

<IXOYE><
February 01, 2010
Re: TDPL a bad idea?
John D wrote:

> What is your name and address? 

I was considering about commenting on your missing identity.

If you want me to take you seriously, you must show me that you are 
brave enough to use your real name. Only then you can start learning how 
empty your self-proclaimed C++ understanding is. (I promise that I will 
teach you.)

Don't hide behind acronyms either: If you are not brave enough to expand 
what you mean by "TDPL", I will not take you seriously. Go on! Do it! 
You can expand it...

Ali Çehreli
"a real name :p"
February 01, 2010
Re: TDPL a bad idea?
On 01/02/2010 01:56, BCS wrote:
> Hello Bane,
>
>> Lars T. Kyllingstad Wrote:
>>
>>> When TDPL is published D2 will be frozen. That's the whole point.
>>>
>>> -Lars
>>>
>> Aha! What about... D3 ? :)
>>
>
> TDPL 2e
>
> And FWIW, I'm in the lets kill trees camp.
>
> p.s. Why doesn't anyone ever bring up the power requirements for reading
> digital docs? Making a book is a one time investment, reading a file
> requiters continues power.
>
> --
>
> <IXOYE><
>
>

Don't go the power requirements route. This will just bring endless 
discussion:
1) what about green power - like using solar energy?
2) what about using recycled paper for books?
3) what about the pollution caused by manufacturing the PC and batteries 
if it's a laptop?
4) what about the pollution caused by manufacturing books?
...

Personally, I prefer paper for stuff that's meant for long-term use and 
digital for one-offs. newspaper is a prime example of what not to do - 
either you pollute by printing daily on new paper or you provide a 
crappy experience with recycled paper. This is IMO a prime example where 
digital is better. YMMV
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