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August 01, 2011
NaCl stable ABI
Google has recently set the ABI for their NaCl:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/j46sz/google_native_client_05_released_with_stable_abi/

When a language becomes usable online it gets much more visibility. I don't know if NaCl will have success (maybe not. I think Mozilla devs don't like NaCl), but it looks like one of the few (best, only?) ways to use D in browsers. Fast games are one possible purposes for D in NaCl, like a D port of this unfinished game:
https://github.com/emezeske/digbuild

Someone is planning of a Mono support for NaCl:
http://www.mono-project.com/Release_Notes_Mono_2.10#Google_Native_Client_Support

I think some person is willing to install the NaCl plug-in if it allows to run nice enough games in the browser. D is an acceptably good language to write fast games.

Bye,
bearophile
August 01, 2011
Re: NaCl stable ABI
On 01-08-2011 18:58, bearophile wrote:
> Google has recently set the ABI for their NaCl:
> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/j46sz/google_native_client_05_released_with_stable_abi/
>
> When a language becomes usable online it gets much more visibility. I don't know if NaCl will have success (maybe not. I think Mozilla devs don't like NaCl), but it looks like one of the few (best, only?) ways to use D in browsers. Fast games are one possible purposes for D in NaCl, like a D port of this unfinished game:
> https://github.com/emezeske/digbuild
>
> Someone is planning of a Mono support for NaCl:
> http://www.mono-project.com/Release_Notes_Mono_2.10#Google_Native_Client_Support
>
> I think some person is willing to install the NaCl plug-in if it allows to run nice enough games in the browser. D is an acceptably good language to write fast games.
>
> Bye,
> bearophile

I agree; it would be a great idea to have NaCl support in D. With Mono 
having support too, the interoperability possibilities would be fantastic.

- Alex
August 01, 2011
Re: NaCl stable ABI
This was for the digitalmars.D newsgroup, of course. It's the new bug in the web interface.

Bye,
bearophile
August 01, 2011
Re: NaCl stable ABI
This still sounds as utterly useless as it always has been.
August 01, 2011
Re: NaCl stable ABI
"Adam D. Ruppe" <destructionator@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:j170it$1bib$1@digitalmars.com...
> This still sounds as utterly useless as it always has been.

Client-side scripting that throws away that god-awful JS crap being utterly 
useless?
August 02, 2011
Re: NaCl stable ABI
Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> Client-side scripting that throws away that god-awful JS crap being
> utterly useless?

As far as I can tell, it doesn't actually throw away JS! I've never
actually used Google Native Client, but looking through the docs,
I can't find any way to set event handlers or otherwise interact
with the html.

You still need to use Javascript to actually enhance the web page.
(if you are writing an app that isn't a web page, for the love of
God, please don't force it into the browser.) Maybe this will change
as it matures, but that's the *first* thing I would have focused on
(and indeed did in my weekend browser, although it's a different
story I guess because mine is more like an html widget than plugin.)


Also, I can't find a Firefox plugin or any other browser support.
It looks like the Google thing is Google-only, and opt in by the
individual users at that. In other words, utterly useless on real
world websites because it won't actually work for 99% of users.

The networking api looks pathetic too, and I doubt that will change,
since web browser security is supposed to be maintained here.

They added audio and video, so it might be usable for writing bad
games, but even that is poor - they don't let you access the operating
system.



It's just not a really compelling offering, even if it were ubiquitious, which,
again it isn't. It is apparently only available
on the worst browser on the market. Then, add on my belief
that javascript is fairly rare in a good site anyway (do most your
work on the server and you have a more useful environment and it
degrades more easily), and I say: useless.
August 02, 2011
Re: NaCl stable ABI
It allows to run code efficiently (in my tests something like 5-10% slower than native code), and it's supposed to be (or to become) safe. There are plans for usage of the 3D GPU and audio. It looks a good idea for games, and more.

Bye,
bearophile
August 02, 2011
Re: NaCl stable ABI
"bearophile" <bearophileHUGS@lycos.com> wrote in message 
news:j17g6i$2a63$1@digitalmars.com...
> It allows to run code efficiently (in my tests something like 5-10% slower 
> than native code), and it's supposed to be (or to become) safe. There are 
> plans for usage of the 3D GPU and audio. It looks a good idea for games, 
> and more.
>

There's no such thing as "good idea for in-browser games". The whole premise 
of in-browser multimeda is nothing short of pure idiocy, no matter how fast 
it is.
August 02, 2011
Re: NaCl stable ABI
"Adam Ruppe" <destructionator@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:j17fi9$280r$1@digitalmars.com...
> Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>> Client-side scripting that throws away that god-awful JS crap being
>> utterly useless?
>
> As far as I can tell, it doesn't actually throw away JS! I've never
> actually used Google Native Client, but looking through the docs,
> I can't find any way to set event handlers or otherwise interact
> with the html.
>

Really? So what the hell *does* it do? Blow cycles just for the fuck of it?


> You still need to use Javascript to actually enhance the web page.
> (if you are writing an app that isn't a web page, for the love of
> God, please don't force it into the browser.) Maybe this will change
> as it matures, but that's the *first* thing I would have focused on
> (and indeed did in my weekend browser, although it's a different
> story I guess because mine is more like an html widget than plugin.)
>
>
> Also, I can't find a Firefox plugin or any other browser support.
> It looks like the Google thing is Google-only, and opt in by the
> individual users at that. In other words, utterly useless on real
> world websites because it won't actually work for 99% of users.
>
> The networking api looks pathetic too, and I doubt that will change,
> since web browser security is supposed to be maintained here.
>
> They added audio and video, so it might be usable for writing bad
> games, but even that is poor - they don't let you access the operating
> system.
>
>
>
> It's just not a really compelling offering, even if it were ubiquitious, 
> which,
> again it isn't. It is apparently only available
> on the worst browser on the market. Then, add on my belief
> that javascript is fairly rare in a good site anyway (do most your
> work on the server and you have a more useful environment and it
> degrades more easily), and I say: useless.

I see.
August 02, 2011
Re: NaCl stable ABI
From what I can tell, it's Google's alternative to Flash; they want
to make crappy games on it.

Consider that the first thing they ported to it, again, just like
their javascript nonsense, was Quake. (I think Google loves
Javascript too much to let it go anyway.)

The API has a lot of graphics and audio stuff too which reinforces
this.
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