touche

Now, Andy, let's have that article. :)

"andy" <acoliver@apache.org> wrote in message news:3D060E26.60001@apache.org...
> anderson wrote:
> > I agree, some of the code will probably be coming out of other programs people have done. They don't want to have to re-style there work again.
It's
> > just extra work.
> >
>
> #define I genericPerson
> #define you genericPersonNotEqualToI
>
> Good point.  I wouldn't do it.  So the question becomes.  I port the java servlet API over to D and launch cool website X under D and its fast and everyone loves it and its achieving widespread adoption of the language.  You're like "Wow can you write an article for the journal". I'm like "sure why not".  I write a wonderful inciteful article (like walter's in Doctor Dobbs that got me interested in D), and employ code samples from my servlet API.  You're like "Wow that's great!" Then you notice that I use
>
> if (request != NULL) {
>   // do something
> }
>
> instead of your standard of
>
> if (request != NULL)
> {
>
> }
>
> You ask me to change it.  I ask if its readible and understandable.  you
> say yes, but it doesn't conform to our somewhat arbitrary guidelines.  I
>   I don't have time or feel like it and gee you're not paying for it
> anyhow, how dare you enforce arbitrary pedantic rules on me (you have to
> pay to do that ;-) ).  You get letters from all sorts of folks saying
> "Gee D is great if it just had a Servlet API, I could ditch Java, C, C#
> and C++ and use it". . .  Do you publish the article or squelch it on
> your pedantic consideration?
>
> So there you have why the subjective consideration of "is this source readible to the average joe with C, C++ or Java skills" .. if it is... well...
>
> -Andy
>
>
> > "andy" <acoliver@apache.org> wrote in message news:3D05ED45.8060906@apache.org...
> >
> >>Pavel Minayev wrote:
> >>
> >>>"Alix Pexton" <Alix@seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message news:01c210a2$3ac60ec0$e1257ad5@jpswm...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I'm still alive, so I attached a very simple mockup of what the
journal
> >>>>might look like...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Looks great!
> >>>
> >>>I wonder how was this piece of code made? The colors look very familiar
> >>>(in fact, those are my preferences in Visual C++ editor)... =)
> >>>
> >>>By the way, I guess we'll need some kind of coding standarts for the site, like where to put braces etc... =)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>-1 - The standard should be that the code is readable.  If that is the case, who cares where the braces are.  This is the stuff of pedantic flamewars that have no logical conclusion.
> >>
> >>-Andy
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Alix makes a good point.

I say leave submitter's code as it is (within the restrictions of readability, printability) which is also a matter of respect. However there is no reason why we cannot have a "style" column, for the edification of newbies.

Have I just thought of another column ... ???


"Alix Pexton" <Alix@seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message news:01c2114d$7ed77a80$834a7ad5@jpswm...
> > I wonder how was this piece of code made? The colors look very familiar
> > (in fact, those are my preferences in Visual C++ editor)... =)
>
> I wrote in all the highlighting by hand on this occasion, but I have also rewritten a certain D sample program so that it emits code that is
css-able
> (uses spans instead of font tags). The colo(u)r values came from the
> aforementioned sample program...
>
> > By the way, I guess we'll need some kind of coding standards for the site, like where to put braces etc... =)
>
> As far as code style goes, along as it compiles (if included as a part of
a
> full program) then that's OK, we could always have a section in the
journal
> dedicated to discussing (read "arguing" if you like) the merits of
> different styles.
>
> IMO, discussions about coding style amongst seasoned programmers are
> pointless, as we'll never change now that when we press enter is a reflex
> not a
> conscious decision. But on the other hand, a good debate is always good
for
>
> the newcomers.
>
> Alix Pexton...
>
>

Too much effort, for too little payback.

Let's focus on content

"Alix Pexton" <Alix@seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message news:01c2116c$7555e9a0$48957ad5@jpswm...
> > By the way, I guess we'll need some kind of coding standarts for the site, like where to put braces etc... =)
>
> I just thought of a novel new solution to the problem with code formatting
> in the journal...
> We (which would probably mean me) could right a javascript code formatter
> that loaded the individual's preferences from a cookie. Everyone is happy
> because code only has to be written once, but will look just like every
one
> prefers...
>
> I think it is possible, but not necessarily easy...
>
> Alix Pexton...

Agreed

"Pavel Minayev" <evilone@omen.ru> wrote in message news:ae5egb$317g$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> "Alix Pexton" <Alix@seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message news:01c2116c$7555e9a0$48957ad5@jpswm...
>
> > We (which would probably mean me) could right a javascript code
formatter
> > that loaded the individual's preferences from a cookie. Everyone is
happy
> > because code only has to be written once, but will look just like every
> one
> > prefers...
>
> Write a JavaScript code formatter? This means both lexer and parser _very_ slow... we could then put "best viewed on Athlon 1GHz or higher" logo on the site. =)
>
> Maybe a server-side script could be better idea, but anyhow, does it worth it? As long as the code is readable, I personally don't care much of
whether
> there are braces or not; thus, preformatting the code, making it more readable, before putting it to the site, seems a better idea to me.
>
>

> considering my english isn't so deep (spanish is my native language). I
just
> got an idea! Maybe, when the whole project is set up, you could ask us (those who like D but have a different native language) to translate "The
D
> Journal" to other languages. Maybe.

I hate to push it, but nobody has paid attention. Has anybody thought about
what I said?
Think about it: right now, D is limited to english speakers (or readers)
because (logically) Digital Mars site is in english. I've tried to advertise
D in my university, but it seems like no one cares because over here people
don't talk english well, so they can't understand D specifications. But if
there was any D page or something as big as "The D Journal" (apparently) in
another language (spanish in this case), then more people would be
interested in D. Walter says D is gaining momentum? Believe me: momentum
will increase by doing that.
Maybe I'm not the right one to do the translation (at least alone), but I
would love to have something like that. And if I can help, I will. Oh, and
there's something else: I think I understand english well enough, but my
eyes hurt now after reading 90+ posts in english, tons of technical terms
(even if they're programming related), slangs, typos, idiomatic expressions,
etc. Consider that I'm used to it and think about people who: (i) don't
understand, (ii) aren't used to, (iii) are too lazy to read all that (D
specs, "D Journal", newsgroup...).
I'm to stubborn, so I ask you: give me one good reason for not doing that.
And "main goal: focusing in the articles" isn't a good reason.

"Matthew Wilson" <dmd@synesis.com.au> wrote in message news:ae5r01$d47$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> I don't have a major philosophical objection to such things, and envisaged that we would eventually do that. It's just that we'd have to be a fully-fledged commercial entity to accept paid advertising, and I thought
we
> might leave that until we've been running a couple of issues first.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> (btw, it is in my medium term plan that we do become a proper commercial mag, published in paper as well as on-line, but I think we need to take small steps ...)

Whenever you're ready, you should get a business license for it. "ready" is probably defined as when a suitable paying advertiser appears <g>. In any case, keeping track of your expenses is a good idea. Once a couple of issues exist, you can approach the paying advertisers in CUJ, etc., and see if they want to participate.

I would say, let's get The D Journal up and running for at least one issue, and then I'll be more than happy to have people translate

Is that good enough?

:)

"Carlos" <carlos8294@msn.com> wrote in message news:ae632c$l6v$2@digitaldaemon.com...
> > considering my english isn't so deep (spanish is my native language). I
> just
> > got an idea! Maybe, when the whole project is set up, you could ask us (those who like D but have a different native language) to translate
"The
> D
> > Journal" to other languages. Maybe.
>
> I hate to push it, but nobody has paid attention. Has anybody thought
about
> what I said?
> Think about it: right now, D is limited to english speakers (or readers)
> because (logically) Digital Mars site is in english. I've tried to
advertise
> D in my university, but it seems like no one cares because over here
people
> don't talk english well, so they can't understand D specifications. But if there was any D page or something as big as "The D Journal" (apparently)
in
> another language (spanish in this case), then more people would be
> interested in D. Walter says D is gaining momentum? Believe me: momentum
> will increase by doing that.
> Maybe I'm not the right one to do the translation (at least alone), but I
> would love to have something like that. And if I can help, I will. Oh, and
> there's something else: I think I understand english well enough, but my
> eyes hurt now after reading 90+ posts in english, tons of technical terms
> (even if they're programming related), slangs, typos, idiomatic
expressions,
> etc. Consider that I'm used to it and think about people who: (i) don't
> understand, (ii) aren't used to, (iii) are too lazy to read all that (D
> specs, "D Journal", newsgroup...).
> I'm to stubborn, so I ask you: give me one good reason for not doing that.
> And "main goal: focusing in the articles" isn't a good reason.
>
>

Sounds like a plan.

"Walter" <walter@digitalmars.com> wrote in message news:ae63b0$lha$1@digitaldaemon.com...
>
> "Matthew Wilson" <dmd@synesis.com.au> wrote in message news:ae5r01$d47$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> > I don't have a major philosophical objection to such things, and
envisaged
> > that we would eventually do that. It's just that we'd have to be a fully-fledged commercial entity to accept paid advertising, and I
thought
> we
> > might leave that until we've been running a couple of issues first.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > (btw, it is in my medium term plan that we do become a proper commercial mag, published in paper as well as on-line, but I think we need to take small steps ...)
>
> Whenever you're ready, you should get a business license for it. "ready"
is
> probably defined as when a suitable paying advertiser appears <g>. In any case, keeping track of your expenses is a good idea. Once a couple of
issues
> exist, you can approach the paying advertisers in CUJ, etc., and see if
they
> want to participate.
>
>

"Carlos" <carlos8294@msn.com> wrote in news:ae632c$l6v$2@digitaldaemon.com:
> 
> I hate to push it, but nobody has paid attention. Has anybody thought
> about what I said?
> Think about it: right now, D is limited to english speakers (or
> readers) because (logically) Digital Mars site is in english. I've
> tried to advertise D in my university, but it seems like no one cares
> because over here people don't talk english well, so they can't
> understand D specifications. But if there was any D page or something

It's hard for me to tell how well it works but have you tried babelfish?

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Matthew Wilson wrote:
> I say the most pragmatic policy is: if the editors who review a peice can
> read it without tearing out their eyeballs, then we let it go. Otherwise
> minimal judicious editing may be performed.
> 
> Please remember guys, that magazines have their own restrictions in code
> format. You cannot have very long lines (since they do not render well in
> print/online) and blank lines are elided for brevity.
> 
> Let's stop worrying about this issue. We will not foist "my", "your" or
> "his" standard on anyone, but will just have a part of the standards
> spectrum within which we can be fluid.
> 
> Let's focus on article ideas!!??
> 

Thoughts...

Cover the basics:

0. Hello D
1. Networking APIs in D
2. Threading in D
3. A simple Servlet engine in D (not to long ago this was done for C++ in Doctor Dobbs..don't remember which issue)
4. Using and/or wrapping a C API with D
5. A reprint or similar article to Walter's DDJ article.
6. Where/When to use D (once it baked a bit more)

-Andy

> Matthew
> 
> "andy" <acoliver@apache.org> wrote in message
> news:3D060B9B.90700@apache.org...
> 
>>>Yep, you are right. But who decides whether the code is readable or not?
>>>I say, some sort of guidelines (not even strict rules) for this purpose
>>>would be
>>>nice to have.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>No.. Flamewars on brackets have no conclusion and are never productive.
>>Readibility is subjective, but then again, one can comply with such
>>guidelines to the letter and produce horrible unreadible code.  Whats
>>the goal?  Push your bracketing standard on the world (hasn't worked for
>>the last 30 or so years, but your incarnation of this flamewar will be
>>different...really!), or make sure the code is helpful and readible?  If
>>the subjective consideration is the goal, go directly to the subjective
>>consideration.  If you just really have to have the machine-generated
>>code view, then employ the use of a code formatter.
>>
>>-Andy
>>
> 
> 
>