Walter, with the Intel Macs out now, is there a chance we could see a DMD version for them?  You did it for Linux a couple of years ago; can you do it for Mac (Darwin is a FreeBSD derivative)?  Can the DMD backend handle that platform?

I know you are loaded with tons of things to do... but I think this could be quite useful eventually.

First answer would be to know if there were a linux compatibility layer available for Mac OS X (Intel edition).

-JJR

John Reimer wrote:
> Walter, with the Intel Macs out now, is there a chance we could see a DMD version for them?  You did it for Linux a couple of years ago; can you do it for Mac (Darwin is a FreeBSD derivative)?  Can the DMD backend handle that platform?

This would be an awesome thing for me. It would bring me much, much closer to actually using D for a commercial project.

Mike Parker wrote:

>> Walter, with the Intel Macs out now, is there a chance we could see a DMD version for them?  You did it for Linux a couple of years ago; can you do it for Mac (Darwin is a FreeBSD derivative)?  Can the DMD backend handle that platform?
> 
> This would be an awesome thing for me. It would bring me much, much closer to actually using D for a commercial project.

Feel free to use GDC in the meantime, though. Perhaps not as "tight"
or fast as the DMD compiler, but it *is* available (since last year):

http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/gdcmac/gdc-0.17-mac-universal.dmg
(see http://www.apple.com/universal/, means: "both powerpc and i686")

--anders

Anders F Björklund wrote:
> Mike Parker wrote:
> 
>>> Walter, with the Intel Macs out now, is there a chance we could see a DMD version for them?  You did it for Linux a couple of years ago; can you do it for Mac (Darwin is a FreeBSD derivative)?  Can the DMD backend handle that platform?
>>
>> This would be an awesome thing for me. It would bring me much, much closer to actually using D for a commercial project.
> 
> Feel free to use GDC in the meantime, though. Perhaps not as "tight"
> or fast as the DMD compiler, but it *is* available (since last year):
> 
> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/gdcmac/gdc-0.17-mac-universal.dmg
> (see http://www.apple.com/universal/, means: "both powerpc and i686")
> 
> --anders


But doesn't Darwin have a Linux compatibility layer equivalent to FreeBSD?  It may be easier to get DMD working on Darwin then we realize now that Intel is the processor base.  GDC is good, but DMD would be better for this machine for a number of reasons.

I have a Darwin 8.01 virtual machine installed in my vmware workstation, but I'm not sure how to get DMD in there and tested.  I don't know how to get the linux compatibility layer installed and set up either.

-JJR

John Reimer wrote:

> But doesn't Darwin have a Linux compatibility layer equivalent to FreeBSD?  It may be easier to get DMD working on Darwin then we realize now that Intel is the processor base.  GDC is good, but DMD would be better for this machine for a number of reasons.

Not that I know of*, but NetBSD could run Darwin binaries I think ?
(i.e. the other way around) I don't have any Intel Mac yet though...

All I've seen for Mac OS X are *source-level* compatibility layers.
Not like http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/linuxemu.html


BTW:
Darwin has been "universal" from the beginning, and even before that.
(OS X hasn't, offically) http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/

--anders


* there are some wild such rumors flying around for Mac OS X 10.5,
  possibly even including Windows support (like the WINE project)

John Reimer wrote:

> I have a Darwin 8.01 virtual machine installed in my vmware workstation, but I'm not sure how to get DMD in there and tested.  I don't know how to get the linux compatibility layer installed and set up either.

Would you care for downloading GDC and give it a whirl on Darwin 8/X86 ?

I'm pretty curious if it works, since it's crosscompiled and untested...
(it shouldn't link to any Mac OS X-specific libraries, as far as I know)

--anders

Anders F Björklund wrote:
> John Reimer wrote:
> 
>> But doesn't Darwin have a Linux compatibility layer equivalent to FreeBSD?  It may be easier to get DMD working on Darwin then we realize now that Intel is the processor base.  GDC is good, but DMD would be better for this machine for a number of reasons.
> 
> Not that I know of*, but NetBSD could run Darwin binaries I think ?
> (i.e. the other way around) I don't have any Intel Mac yet though...
> 
> All I've seen for Mac OS X are *source-level* compatibility layers.
> Not like http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/linuxemu.html
> 
> 


That was the case when Mac OS X was on PowerPC for sure.  But I was hoping the linux-compat package would be popularized/fixed with the release of Intel Macs.  From the googling I've done, though, it appears that you are right about this.


> BTW:
> Darwin has been "universal" from the beginning, and even before that.
> (OS X hasn't, offically) http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/
> 


Yes, I know this, Anders. But it's not until Intel Macs came out that this had any relevance for most people.  Darwin on Intel, as far as I know, wasn't extremely popular.  Now it has raison d'être.



> --anders
> 
> 
> * there are some wild such rumors flying around for Mac OS X 10.5,
>   possibly even including Windows support (like the WINE project)


You mean something like this?

http://darwine.opendarwin.org

Anders F Björklund wrote:
> John Reimer wrote:
> 
>> I have a Darwin 8.01 virtual machine installed in my vmware workstation, but I'm not sure how to get DMD in there and tested.  I don't know how to get the linux compatibility layer installed and set up either.
> 
> Would you care for downloading GDC and give it a whirl on Darwin 8/X86 ?
> 
> I'm pretty curious if it works, since it's crosscompiled and untested...
> (it shouldn't link to any Mac OS X-specific libraries, as far as I know)
> 
> --anders


I know you asked me to do this before.  But this isn't so easy.

Darwin boots in the virtual machine, but I don't really know much more on how to use it:  I don't know how to get more packages; I don't know if I need more packages; I don't know how to download them into the Darwin console (no X server on this one).  Furthermore I'm on dialup, so src packages are typically huge and slow to download for me.  Absolutely no fun there.

All this takes a fair bit of time and research.  At the moment, I'm not sure if I want to go to the trouble of trying all this with a system I'm unfamiliar with. I've got a number of other priorities over this one.

If you had access to an intel machine (not a mac), you could just get the vmplayer and try it yourself, no?

-JJR

John Reimer wrote:

> I know you asked me to do this before.  But this isn't so easy.
> 
> Darwin boots in the virtual machine, but I don't really know much more on how to use it:  I don't know how to get more packages; I don't know if I need more packages; I don't know how to download them into the Darwin console (no X server on this one).  Furthermore I'm on dialup, so src packages are typically huge and slow to download for me.  Absolutely no fun there.

Ah, OK. I thought you had it up and running and on broadband. Sorry.

Also remembered that I didn't do a ZIP for the Universal, just a DMG.
(DMG and PKG are propriatary formats, so they only work on Mac OS X)

> All this takes a fair bit of time and research.  At the moment, I'm not sure if I want to go to the trouble of trying all this with a system I'm unfamiliar with. I've got a number of other priorities over this one.

I don't blame you at all, just figured if it was a 5 minute thing...

There are plenty of Intel Macs now, so you don't need to bother.
If no-one else has one, I'll just have to go to the Apple Store :-)

> If you had access to an intel machine (not a mac), you could just get the vmplayer and try it yourself, no?

I do have an Intel machine again since a while back, but for reasons
such as the ones you give above I haven't gotten Darwin 8 to run yet.

Oh well, if this takes off I just have to get a real Intel Mac...

--anders

John Reimer wrote:

>> All I've seen for Mac OS X are *source-level* compatibility layers.
>> Not like http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/linuxemu.html
> 
> That was the case when Mac OS X was on PowerPC for sure.  But I was hoping the linux-compat package would be popularized/fixed with the release of Intel Macs.  From the googling I've done, though, it appears that you are right about this.

I wish I wasn't. Such a FreeBSD-ish compatibility layer would have been
useful, now I have to dual-boot for running Linux on this Mac. (PowerPC)

Heck, I can't even access the ext2/3 *partition* in a stable manner...
(just experimental ways, like http://sourceforge.net/projects/ext2fsx/)

> Yes, I know this, Anders. But it's not until Intel Macs came out that this had any relevance for most people.  Darwin on Intel, as far as I know, wasn't extremely popular.  Now it has raison d'être.

Darwin on PowerPC isn't extremely popular either, but having access to
the source code to (at least parts of) operating system is very useful.

Interestingly, Darwin on PowerPC always came with universal/fat tools
for cross-compiling to Intel, but tools on Mac OS X on PowerPC do not...

Well, didn't until Mac OS X 10.4 - which does have compilers for both.

>> * there are some wild such rumors flying around for Mac OS X 10.5,
>>   possibly even including Windows support (like the WINE project)
> 
> You mean something like this?
> http://darwine.opendarwin.org

Yes, but less buggy and more integrated :-)

Having Linux ABI *and* Win32 ABI for Intel macs, would be pretty neat ?
(i.e. without having to go through a "box" mode like VMWare/VirtualPC)

--anders