John C wrote:
> Poor Windows. It does take some stick. Shall I be the only one to come to its defence and say I've never had so much as a crash since Windows 2000? Honestly, all this fuss... 

XP rarely self-destructs on me. This is the second time in about 3 years. But when it does, you're in for a full day or two of work, presuming you have all your crib sheets and install disks ready. The only reason I had them this time is because last August it failed on me, and it took me about a week to get everything sorted out (and some stuff was lost for good), including contacting some companies and begging them to give me a new registration code :-(.

I'd forgive Windows for needing a reinstall now and then *if* it separated applications from the operating system, and *if* it provided reasonable ways to back up and restore things like O.E.

The only way to back up Windows is to mirror the drive.

pragma wrote:
> In article <e0ea8l$5q8$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Sean Kelly says...
>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>> 1) Keep a crib sheet of all the settings, passwords, serial numbers, registration follderalls, etc.
>> Definately.  I have an emergency sheet locked away with such information on it.
> 
> I've found that taping an envelope to the inside of your case (if you wind up in
> there as much as I do) is about as fail-safe as it gets for keeping this safe
> from any clutter or whatnot in your lab.

Also, for every app or bit of hardware I buy, I put all its CDs, manuals, and miscellaneous bits into its very own ziplock bag. This has saved me numerous times.

*trying to resist... trying to resist...* *breaks under the pressure*

I've found the key to using Windows is to not.

Walter Bright wrote:

> A few days ago, Outlook Express starting acting flaky - my account names were forcibly converted to 1, 2, 3, etc., and retyping in the correct ones refused to stick. Then, windows update started failing with useless messages consisting of 8 digit hex numbers.
> 
> So I thought I'd try Microsoft update tech support (which is free for update failures). They asked me to send them logs, which I did. Then, came an endless series of "try this ...", which usually involved unregistering a dozen dlls, rebooting, starting/stopping services, reregistering them, renaming system files, booting in safe mode, wiping directories, deleting files, rebooting, rebooting, all to no avail (except the 8 digit hex number would change).
> 
> Then came the exhortation to run a virus scan, with a couple links. The symantec virus scan crashed after a half hour. The other one completed, and found nothing.
> 
> At this point, it was apparent that tech support had no idea why this was happening, and I was beginning to worry there was either a rootkit installed, or there was just creeping corruption going on. I gave up on Microsoft tech support, and decided to reinstall Windows.
> 
> Do you know it takes THREE HOURS to install Windows from scratch? Gads, you install XP from the CD which requires rebooting several times, then again from the XP SP2 update CD (rebooting n more times), then you log in to Windows update and update/reboot 4 or 5 more times. Why can't Windows Update download everything at once and reboot only once?
> 
> So now I've got Windows reinstalled. Now comes the dance of reinstalling everything else. The worst is, of course, Outlook Express which completely loses track of everything after a reinstall. I have a crib sheet of most of the settings, but even so, there's no way to restore which newsgroup files are read/unread. I also use the undocumented method of finding which gawdawful directory O.E. squirrels the files away in (all in deeply nested hidden directories with 80+ character tty noise filenames) and saving/restoring the dbx files manually.
> 
> Most of the other apps aren't too bad, if you were smart enough to keep a crib sheet of all the serial numbers, registration numbers, and funky passwords. The whole job takes about 12 hours.
> 
> Morals of the story:
> 
> 1) Keep a crib sheet of all the settings, passwords, serial numbers, registration follderalls, etc.
> 
> 2) If you're going to provide an update program, fer cryin out loud, make it a monolithic program that doesn't depend on everything else in the OS working perfectly. After all, when you need it, it's probably because the rest of the system isn't right. And if the update program itself is corrupted, then tech support can just send you a new one.
> 
> 3) If you're writing an app, don't require it to be reinstalled if Windows is reinstalled. DM programs don't need to be. Store your configuration in some text file that can be saved/restored. Please!
> 
> 4) If you're going to need to muck about with the system registry, do it like Quicken does. Quicken has a menu item "Backup" which, amazingly enough, backs up all its settings and crud to a file you specify. Then, I reinstall Quicken from the CD, hit "Restore" and give the file name, and it fixes itself. Quicken is full of horrible design choices, but at least they got that right. No other app I've used does that.
> 
> 5) Never, ever install anything with DRM on it on your work computer. DRM often involves rootkits, installing new drivers that destabilize your system, etc. This includes most game software. Use a separate computer for DRM, one that you won't mind regularly reinstalling Windows on.
> 
> There, I feel better now <g>.

John Demme wrote:

> *trying to resist... trying to resist...* *breaks under the pressure*
> 
> I've found the key to using Windows is to not.
> 

I aplogize... I try to not post anything not constructive, but I can't resist some times... That being said, there is one thing I really like about Unix: home directories.

I've been through countless Linux installs over the past 6 years, but I've kept the same home directory, and thus all of my application's preferences. Even when I upgrade drives, I copy my home dir and everything works.  I've (a few times) acidently nuked my system drive and had to do a full reinstall... WHILE the re-install is going, I'll be using a Linux boot CD with my home dir (on a different drive) and most of the applications will work with my preferences.  I used to keep my home directory on an NFS share so I could log into the same environment for all the machines in the house (then I moved into a small apartment and junked all the machines.) Flexbility: yes!

Personally, aside from modularity and a kick-ass command line, I feel this is the one of best advantages that Unix has over Windows.

Yes, yes.. I know windows has user home directories, but since most applications use the registry instead, it's not worth much.

Trying to bit a bit constructive to make up,
John Demme

I strongly recommend that you invest in a copy of Symantec Ghost (or equivalent).

Install Windows, download all the Windows Update patches, configure it, then create a ghost image.

An operating version of Windows can then be restored from the ghost image in (generally) under 10 minutes.

I keep a series of ghost images:
1. With just Windows
2. As above, with patches, configuration
3. As above, with basic suite of applications

Saves an enormous amount of time in the long term.

Couple of things to remember:
1. When you create the ghost image, leave the password blank.  Just assign
one after you have restored the image.
2. Dont forget to patch the Windows installation after restoring from a
ghost image (at least via Windows Update).

Hope this helps.

Tony
Melbourne, Australia (tonysZ-mailbox at hotmailZ.com) (remove the Zs)

Walter Bright wrote:

> XP rarely self-destructs on me. This is the second time in about 3 years.

I don't think that's reasonable but many windows users find it natural.

Ant

Joel Lucsy wrote:
> Walter Bright wrote:
>> A few days ago, Outlook Express starting acting flaky - my account names were forcibly converted to 1, 2, 3, etc., and retyping in the correct ones refused to stick. Then, windows update started failing with useless messages consisting of 8 digit hex numbers.
> 
> Ever thought about running Thunderbird? I've been running it since it first came out and have never had corruption that wasn't my own fault.
> 

Thunderbird has worked well for me as well.

Jari-Matti Mäkelä wrote:
> James Dunne wrote:
>> pragma wrote:
>>> In article <e0e770$21p$1@digitaldaemon.com>, John C says...
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> Also, linux is not without its warts too.  I'm having a hell of a time
>>> trying to
>>> get it to support Nforce3 from a floppy install - AFAIK, it can't be
>>> done w/o
>>> some serious hacking or using a CD instead.
>>>
>>> - EricAnderton at yahoo
>> I set up my dual-boot XP/Gentoo machine at home using VMWare since I
>> have an nForce motherboard.  I can't really do a network install booted
>> into Linux without drivers for the network card... so VMWare to the
>> rescue.  I set it loose to use the physical hard drive so I can install
>> Linux onto my HD and boot into it later, *after* I download the nVidia
>> drivers for my system.
>>
>> I decided to leave it installing in a VM because it takes a helluva long
>> time to install Gentoo (compiling, compiling, compiling...).  I think I
>> had it running for > 2.5 days before I had a minimally working system.
>> Now I barely use it and just use XP as the regular OS.
> 
> So true.. except that it only takes ~8 hours to compile the base system
> on an Athlon XP. You can download all the necessary drivers to a
> FAT-partition before starting the installation. That way you can run
> things natively.
> 

If you want fast installation, wth were you doing using gentoo? You want a mandrake, fedora, or ubuntu.

Kyle Furlong wrote:
> Jari-Matti Mäkelä wrote:
>> James Dunne wrote:
>>> pragma wrote:
>>>> In article <e0e770$21p$1@digitaldaemon.com>, John C says...
>>>>
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> Also, linux is not without its warts too.  I'm having a hell of a time
>>>> trying to
>>>> get it to support Nforce3 from a floppy install - AFAIK, it can't be
>>>> done w/o
>>>> some serious hacking or using a CD instead.
>>>>
>>>> - EricAnderton at yahoo
>>> I set up my dual-boot XP/Gentoo machine at home using VMWare since I have an nForce motherboard.  I can't really do a network install booted into Linux without drivers for the network card... so VMWare to the rescue.  I set it loose to use the physical hard drive so I can install Linux onto my HD and boot into it later, *after* I download the nVidia drivers for my system.
>>>
>>> I decided to leave it installing in a VM because it takes a helluva long time to install Gentoo (compiling, compiling, compiling...).  I think I had it running for > 2.5 days before I had a minimally working system. Now I barely use it and just use XP as the regular OS.
>>
>> So true.. except that it only takes ~8 hours to compile the base system on an Athlon XP. You can download all the necessary drivers to a FAT-partition before starting the installation. That way you can run things natively.
>>
> 
> If you want fast installation, wth were you doing using gentoo? You want a mandrake, fedora, or ubuntu.

Their package repositories is a bit smaller. Gentoo is always ready to compile everything you might ever need and it's hard as a rock in terms of both stability and security.

-- 
Jari-Matti

Alex Stevenson wrote:
> dennis luehring wrote:
> ...
>> 2. slipstream your xp-cd-copy with the sp2 (permanently)
>> (http://www.helpwithwindows.com/WindowsXP/winxp-sp2-bootcd.html)
>> ca. 15min
> ...
> 
> Slipstreaming service packs onto CD saved me a lot of time on my XP reinstalls - you can also set up an automated install so you don't have to go through all the guff of entering keys, time zones and localisation settings every time.

Theres even a handy tool which will do it all for you! http://www.nliteos.com/ Nlite also allows you to remove ANY part of windows that you wish. For instance, I dont use any sort of printer, so I removed ALL printer support from the OS. Maybe I'm just a speed freak though... :-)